Right, and I'm not trying to speak for everyone when it comes to what to buy.BayAreaKite wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:42 am@kamikuza for you carbon masts are not worth the cost. I respect that. But you can't speak for everyone. You can absolutely feel a 1lb weight difference in the mast when foiling... and walking on the beach, and flying commercial airlines with your gear, and starting strapless, and jumping. Weight is the enemy of everything.
I don't know why I have to repeat myself, but light and stiff is not a myth. What is your definition of light? My mast is 30% lighter than the Axis aluminum mast and just as stiff. I could trade more weight for stiffness, for example I could design the mast to be 15% lighter than Axis and 15% stiffer. That is lighter and stiffer. As a designer/engineer I simply chose to allocate more to weight savings than increased stiffness. But the mast is still much stiffer than many carbon and aluminum masts on the market. You will never see carbon masts that are more than 40% lighter than an aluminum mast of equivalent stiffness, so not sure what you mean by the future looking promising. Based on the mechanical properties of the materials it's simply impossible.
So again I respect your opinion that carbon masts aren't worth it for you. Not going to argue. But for some riders, a well-designed lightweight and stiff carbon mast is worth the premium, and they do exist.
Interesting on the wheels but with bicycles the saying is 1lb off the wheels is worth 2lb off the bike (rotational weight) so the apparent 400g should really be compared as a 800g saving. Also weight savings are more critical if you can't change the power source to compensate (Gruber assist anyone ) so its not a totally fair cost vs benefit comparison in terms of weight.BayAreaKite wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:33 pmNo, it is not 100% carbon and for very good reasons. For example the edges being flexible PVC make them lighter, cheaper, and less prone to chipping and cracking than carbon. They are also safer, and the aluminum mount plate is stronger than the the top mount of any carbon masts (and lighter). So marketing a 100% carbon mast that is inferior to a hybrid design by nearly all metrics makes no sense to me. and 600g is not insignificant! People pay a lot more for less weight savings in a lot of other sports (cycling, sailing, flying, etc). When I used to race road bikes people would spend $2,500 on a set of carbon wheels which weighed 1200g vs. aluminum hoops for less than half the price at 1600g.
I agree that stiffness is more important than weight, so I would prioritize carbon, fewer connection points/parts, and the quality/method of connection points. Except for how the board+foil assembly might float in the water for a water start, I'm not sure weight matters. Why care about 1/4 or 1/2lb when the guy on top is 200lb? But, the direct feeling from foot-to-foil is key. This allows for greater sensitivity to what's going on underwater, and for me, over time, allows my body and senses to become more predictive than reactive. Whenever I try a lesser foil rig (per my priorities above) it feels sloppy, but more importantly, a bit unpredictable.Flyboy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:23 amJust received my 85 cm Gong carbon mast/fuselage. The immediately noticeable thing is that the new mast has a much thicker cord than the older Gong alu mast (or the older Gong Carbon mast). As a result it's not all that light - I guess Gong has made the decision that stiffness is more important than light weight. It seems like most of the foil brands are now going with a similar beefier construction. This might be intended more to handle the load created by the large wings people are using to wing & surf with.
The 85 cm mast fuselage combo weighs in at 2.3 kg, while the 95 cm alu mast with fuselage & plate attached weighs in at 3 kg. 30% difference, which is exactly what Gong lists in their tech info.
I think I can easily distinguish price difference, strapless waterstarts difference and feeling of carrying the foils
It comes down to the concept of unsprung mass. And it does make a noticeable difference in terms of feel and reactivity. See your legs as the spring/shock absorbers that deal with the body weight (sprung mass).
you are right!grigorib wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:08 amI think I can easily distinguish price difference, strapless waterstarts difference and feeling of carrying the foils
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