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IKO Validity?

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Buntt
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Postby Buntt » Thu May 13, 2004 5:48 pm

Apparently, anyone can get away with anything & look like a hero if you use the word 'safety' enough.
[img]


yeah i remember the word safety being spoken about quite a bit during my course...shame it was barely put into practice...[/img]

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abel
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Postby abel » Fri May 14, 2004 1:01 am

C'mon guys !!!

SAFETY is not a bad word. It shouldn't be missused though.

If a kid(or anbody) is standing between the lines, are you going to shut up when you see that a kiter is going to launch anyway?
Aren't you goint to tell your student about this porblem and similar ones?

If you see a newbee opening a 16mts kite in >20knts are you going to let him blow to hell? or are you going to kindly assist and warn him?

If you don't want to call this trivial safety issues, OK don't, but most probably you are going to address them somehow.

The problem is that what seems trivial and common sense for experienced kiters, it is not obvious for newbies.

Mabe we shouldn't abuse the use of the word or it's concept to avoid hypocrite or cinical references to it by people with less awarness.
We all know that it might be a matter of banning, cutted fingers/ears, stiches on the head and some times worse. I saw these all.

Does anyone dissagree that it is reasonable to refer to safety seriously in a proportional and balanced way?

So what's the fuzz about the word?

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Postby fokiten » Fri May 14, 2004 1:16 am

abel wrote:C'mon guys !!!

SAFETY is not a bad word. It shouldn't be missused though.

If a kid(or anbody) is standing between the lines, are you going to shut up when you see that a kiter is going to launch anyway?
Aren't you goint to tell your student about this porblem and similar ones?

If you see a newbee opening a 16mts kite in >20knts are you going to let him blow to hell? or are you going to kindly assist and warn him?

If you don't want to call this trivial safety issues, OK don't, but most probably you are going to address them somehow.

The problem is that what seems trivial and common sense for experienced kiters, it is not obvious for newbies.

Mabe we shouldn't abuse the use of the word or it's concept to avoid hypocrite or cinical references to it by people with less awarness.
We all know that it might be a matter of banning, cutted fingers/ears, stiches on the head and some times worse. I saw these all.

Does anyone dissagree that it is reasonable to refer to safety seriously in a proportional and balanced way?

So what's the fuzz about the word?
Well,
Speaking for myself, I can't see any real safety in this sport :o ,

I mean f*** !! you can talk a blue streak on safety, and the next minute be Mary Poppins yanking like a mofo on that sinking little ball, :D


Hey let's get real the more your ride better you become at saying,,, "Yeah this looks doable,, let's rig,, :thumb:

Hey,,, Safey??? right, don't make me laugh

How many dudes be dribbling now?

Hey, I didn't create the situation I just see it for what it is,

Great if you don't mind flipping death the finger and telling the wife It's all good now,,, don't worry.. :wink:

It's the safe sales pitch that pisses me off,,
fokiten

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Postby John Holzhall » Fri May 14, 2004 2:07 am

abel wrote:C'mon guys !!!

SAFETY is not a bad word. It shouldn't be missused though.

If a kid(or anbody) is standing between the lines, are you going to shut up when you see that a kiter is going to launch anyway?
Aren't you goint to tell your student about this porblem and similar ones?

If you see a newbee opening a 16mts kite in >20knts are you going to let him blow to hell? or are you going to kindly assist and warn him?

If you don't want to call this trivial safety issues, OK don't, but most probably you are going to address them somehow.

The problem is that what seems trivial and common sense for experienced kiters, it is not obvious for newbies.

Mabe we shouldn't abuse the use of the word or it's concept to avoid hypocrite or cinical references to it by people with less awarness.
We all know that it might be a matter of banning, cutted fingers/ears, stiches on the head and some times worse. I saw these all.

Does anyone dissagree that it is reasonable to refer to safety seriously in a proportional and balanced way?

So what's the fuzz about the word?
Your are right, any (normal/sociable) rider who launches a kite is an instructor...like it or not, that is the way it is. This is one of many reasons why we put the K.I.T.E.S. system on DVD. As the kite lands, the questions come..."how much is that...where can I get one..."

The K.I.T.E.S. system is proven and polished, guys who use it have an easier time riding and helping others into the sport. If after watching it, you don't see how the system saves beach access and lives, then send it back for a full refund. It took us five years of teaching everyday on Maui to develop this system, we know how and why it works. With this system, the sport is just not that difficult or dangerous because the rider will understand how to make riding safe. There is my guarentee to any serious rider. Email me at mail@kiteboardcenter.com for a Safety Rep. copy. ($16.95).

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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Fri May 14, 2004 2:26 am

sid5150 wrote:So to sum all of that up:

IKO certification doesn't mean you'll be safe, or even learn how to kiteboard. But instructors, stores, and especially train the trainer schools will have an opportunity to fleece the student.

Store instructors - What a great way to ensure that you get first dibs on the nooB's wallet. Brilliant. :thumb:

Apparently, anyone can get away with anything & look like a hero if you use the word 'safety' enough.

Sid sends
You used the word "safety" once in your compulsive posting affliction above and you look like a complete idiot - still! :thumb:


:bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye:

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abel
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Postby abel » Fri May 14, 2004 8:38 am

Hi Fo,

It seems that I always agree with you about the facts. This sport is dangerous. It's about the ODDS that I kind'a have a different approach.

Isn't being a live dangerous? (hey you might get doomed any moment by a car accident, a terrorist attack, a hart attack, a natural disaster....)

If an earthqake occurs in a place where the buidings are not designed to stand a hard shake, then you have a lot of casualties. If they are well designed then the lower the casualties. Of course that given a hard enough strike, nature will beat us anyhow. But I'm talking about the ODDS.
Don't you agree with me that we CAN influence and get better probabilities to get through a bad situation that WILL happen (remember Murphy ?)



You see.. when you drive, you try to be carefull as much as you can and just in case you use the belt. Statistically it saved more lives than it took (as we all know that belts have also darwbacks).

I would put a bit off effort trying to enhance my odds without getting to the point of using a metal-reinforced umbrella against meteorites when I walk on the street :lol:

It is a matter of proportion and reasonable limits.

Do you really think that the helmet is way out of realistic limits?

Cheeres :thumb:

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Postby fokiten » Fri May 14, 2004 3:45 pm

abel wrote:Hi Fo,

It seems that I always agree with you about the facts. This sport is dangerous. It's about the ODDS that I kind'a have a different approach.

Isn't being a live dangerous? (hey you might get doomed any moment by a car accident, a terrorist attack, a hart attack, a natural disaster....)

If an earthqake occurs in a place where the buidings are not designed to stand a hard shake, then you have a lot of casualties. If they are well designed then the lower the casualties. Of course that given a hard enough strike, nature will beat us anyhow. But I'm talking about the ODDS.
Don't you agree with me that we CAN influence and get better probabilities to get through a bad situation that WILL happen (remember Murphy ?)



You see.. when you drive, you try to be carefull as much as you can and just in case you use the belt. Statistically it saved more lives than it took (as we all know that belts have also darwbacks).

I would put a bit off effort trying to enhance my odds without getting to the point of using a metal-reinforced umbrella against meteorites when I walk on the street :lol:

It is a matter of proportion and reasonable limits.

Do you really think that the helmet is way out of realistic limits?

Cheeres :thumb:
able,
Hey, I totally agree, we have to do whatever we can to keep ourselves aware.

That I believe explains why I'm always pointing out we have Shit for Brains
I can't tell you how many times I've just said f***-it, If I can get to the wind line it'll be butter, then launch in the wind shadow get lofted off the point and try to just keep the kite up,,,WHAM, fffuuuck, me!
Bam!, choke gurgle etc.

Yeah we got it all in focus?

Watch out for your addiction
Yikes
fokiten

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Postby marina » Fri May 14, 2004 6:03 pm

I think IKO is a solid organization which offers an excellent instructor certification program. I have been very happy with the level of professional and commitment to safety of the instructors we have hired so far since joining IKO. OF course, it is also up to the school to set the tone for the teaching program and check with staff through meetings/etc to improve programs/level of instruction/professional standards.

For being in existence for just a short time, give them some credit for what they've accomplished so far. If someone passes the course, it is because they met the requirements. It doesn't guarantee that this person is a good teacher or responsible. Ever been to a doctor that you think is an idiot? Does getting a college degree make you competent in your area of expertise? How many memorable teachers did you have when going to school? If you have complaints about an IKO instructor or school, contact the organization! At least you have some recourse!
Last edited by marina on Fri May 14, 2004 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Don`t you just..

Postby Baboon » Fri May 14, 2004 6:34 pm

Don`t you just love reading or hearing this one on the various forums ,beaches etc...................."take it from me I`m an instructor " and "believe me I`m an instructor".................................................................................................................................................Uh huh ,right

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Postby sid5150 » Sat May 15, 2004 12:18 am

kitepower wrote: You used the word "safety" once in your compulsive posting affliction above and you look like a complete idiot - still!
Steve - You are SOOOooooo close to forming a genuine, fact based arguement. Keep trying, because I *KNOW* you can do it!!! :thumb:


For people like Steve, 'safety' and 'instructors' bring in the $$$. They would be foolish not to press the issue. If you can't convince the people who know what they are doing, you go after the newbies.

"You can't kiteboard without instruction!"

Of course! Where to get lessons? Why at my shop. I also happen to sell everything you need. How oddly convienient!


I'm sure there are a few people who are generally interested in ensuring people kite safely. However, the majority genuinely care about your wallet, and if safety is involved - Well, that's nice too.


Sid sends


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