"Real Karma" and the "Court of Public Opinion" travel very fast on the internet.
RB
Get REAL,REAL.
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RickyBobby
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dark conscience kiter
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Re: Get REAL,REAL.
Waves N' Butter - where is your evidence that shows real did not call or send a letter first? where is your evidence that there is not a pile of 'cease and desist' letters somewhere in kitty Hawk, extreme kites, and real's office buildings/
about your second point, shouldn't we let the courts decide what is legal and not legal ???? if you have a problem with the justice system, thats a different story1!
- it sounds to me like you have a personal hatred towards real and are trying to make people believe what your saying is facts... without any evidence!!!
Toby, with all respect this information is all true and is NOT slander. The legal documents substantiate this. Please refer to the links to the financial documents posted earlier. It's important to point out a few key facts (yes, facts!). Toby, you cannot be sued for other people stating facts on your site. Remember freedom of speech. And please do not be bullied by REAL's intimidation tactics.
1) REAL launched direct lawsuits without calling or legal lettering first. Even major corporations will use a 'cease a desist' letter and/or make a 'cease and desist' phone call before even considering a lawsuit. REAL is attacking small operators who cannot afford legal fees in hopes that they will shut them down for ever. REMEMBER Matt's sister is a lawyer. They have free in-house legal council. They also have a lot more money than any of their competitors.
2) REAL's claims are, legally speaking, absurd anyway. You can't trade mark common terms. There is a very high chance that the judge presiding over this is going to through the case out.
3) REAL is suing people they know very well (yes, their 'friends') and they are suing not just local kiteboarding companies but companies around the US well out of their territory. REAL did not invent kiteboarding, jargon typically used by kiteboarders, nor the teaching of kiteboarding.
What is so upsetting to long time kiteboarders is not that REAL is staking a claim to certain terms and phrases. What is so disturbing is the way they have gone about it. There was a time when REAL was an asset to the sport but now it is turning kiteboarding into a repugnant and insidious political joke. Matt and Tripp are now seemingly more interested in their own personal financial and ego-driven gain than in the love of the sport.
The people they are suing aren't teaching kiteboarding to get rich. Most of them are just barely making a living. They are teaching because they LOVE the sport the way we all do. REAL wants to take that away from them and their students.
REAL. It's time to get REAL again.[/quote]
about your second point, shouldn't we let the courts decide what is legal and not legal ???? if you have a problem with the justice system, thats a different story1!
- it sounds to me like you have a personal hatred towards real and are trying to make people believe what your saying is facts... without any evidence!!!
Toby, with all respect this information is all true and is NOT slander. The legal documents substantiate this. Please refer to the links to the financial documents posted earlier. It's important to point out a few key facts (yes, facts!). Toby, you cannot be sued for other people stating facts on your site. Remember freedom of speech. And please do not be bullied by REAL's intimidation tactics.
1) REAL launched direct lawsuits without calling or legal lettering first. Even major corporations will use a 'cease a desist' letter and/or make a 'cease and desist' phone call before even considering a lawsuit. REAL is attacking small operators who cannot afford legal fees in hopes that they will shut them down for ever. REMEMBER Matt's sister is a lawyer. They have free in-house legal council. They also have a lot more money than any of their competitors.
2) REAL's claims are, legally speaking, absurd anyway. You can't trade mark common terms. There is a very high chance that the judge presiding over this is going to through the case out.
3) REAL is suing people they know very well (yes, their 'friends') and they are suing not just local kiteboarding companies but companies around the US well out of their territory. REAL did not invent kiteboarding, jargon typically used by kiteboarders, nor the teaching of kiteboarding.
What is so upsetting to long time kiteboarders is not that REAL is staking a claim to certain terms and phrases. What is so disturbing is the way they have gone about it. There was a time when REAL was an asset to the sport but now it is turning kiteboarding into a repugnant and insidious political joke. Matt and Tripp are now seemingly more interested in their own personal financial and ego-driven gain than in the love of the sport.
The people they are suing aren't teaching kiteboarding to get rich. Most of them are just barely making a living. They are teaching because they LOVE the sport the way we all do. REAL wants to take that away from them and their students.
REAL. It's time to get REAL again.[/quote]
Re: Get REAL,REAL.
[/quote]dark conscience kiter wrote:Waves N' Butter - where is your evidence that shows real did not call or send a letter first? where is your evidence that there is not a pile of 'cease and desist' letters somewhere in kitty Hawk, extreme kites, and real's office buildings/
about your second point, shouldn't we let the courts decide what is legal and not legal ???? if you have a problem with the justice system, thats a different story1!
- it sounds to me like you have a personal hatred towards real and are trying to make people believe what your saying is facts... without any evidence!!!
Toby, with all respect this information is all true and is NOT slander. The legal documents substantiate this. Please refer to the links to the financial documents posted earlier. It's important to point out a few key facts (yes, facts!). Toby, you cannot be sued for other people stating facts on your site. Remember freedom of speech. And please do not be bullied by REAL's intimidation tactics.
1) REAL launched direct lawsuits without calling or legal lettering first. Even major corporations will use a 'cease a desist' letter and/or make a 'cease and desist' phone call before even considering a lawsuit. REAL is attacking small operators who cannot afford legal fees in hopes that they will shut them down for ever. REMEMBER Matt's sister is a lawyer. They have free in-house legal council. They also have a lot more money than any of their competitors.
2) REAL's claims are, legally speaking, absurd anyway. You can't trade mark common terms. There is a very high chance that the judge presiding over this is going to through the case out.
3) REAL is suing people they know very well (yes, their 'friends') and they are suing not just local kiteboarding companies but companies around the US well out of their territory. REAL did not invent kiteboarding, jargon typically used by kiteboarders, nor the teaching of kiteboarding.
What is so upsetting to long time kiteboarders is not that REAL is staking a claim to certain terms and phrases. What is so disturbing is the way they have gone about it. There was a time when REAL was an asset to the sport but now it is turning kiteboarding into a repugnant and insidious political joke. Matt and Tripp are now seemingly more interested in their own personal financial and ego-driven gain than in the love of the sport.
The people they are suing aren't teaching kiteboarding to get rich. Most of them are just barely making a living. They are teaching because they LOVE the sport the way we all do. REAL wants to take that away from them and their students.
REAL. It's time to get REAL again.
This sounds like good ol' corporate america to me..."piles of 'cease and desist letters'...jeez, what has this sport become ?
I don't think that underlying the legitimacy of the legal action will help people in this group condoning what Real is doing.
The kiting community is questioning whether this is morally appropriate in such an environment and given the current dimension of the sport; let alone the other serious issues we should be most concerned with like "fatal accidents" and the likes...
As a (former) instructor I, once again, don't see enough emphasys put in instructions and responsibility for the new riders that you help along (like sending them home with lots of gear and sometimes very little knowledge when the conditions did not allow for proper teaching). When I was teaching I did that, and tryed to follow people along until they were truly ready to progress on their own. This took great amount of energies and it was very time consuming but I will stand behind this approach and hopefully my students out there still appreciate what i did for them. And i do know of instructors out there that still operate in this fashion...i'm sure many of us know them as well and that is where we should direct all the newbies we come across and need lessons.
It's a bit disconcerning to see more effords and money going into "unfriendly" legal actions against other memebers of the kiteboarding industry rather than where it would be more valuable for our community, like "LESSONS"
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lndpnt
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sucks to see where this whole incident has gone. It's mazing how these forums can turn into lynch mobs.
Matt and Trip are outstanding people and obviously inspired businessmen. They manage to get out and play in the ocean almost every day and have nothing but possitive vibes on and off the water. They have a great family of employees that appear to love being here, most staying for many years. Real Kiteboarding has brought amazing energy to this community, locally and globally and I think they've done great things for this sport.
They are also in business, I suspect, so they can continue this lifestyle and make a living doing what they love. I've always been impressed with the whole business model, from the graphics down to the amount of time, energy and money they've put into it. Many kitesurfing retailers throw up a dull websites with little valuable info, and only sell gear backed up with minimal lessons. Real offers a the largest amount of instruction anywhere online on DVD or on the water. I'm sure there are plenty of easier ways to make money.
Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon, when no one really knows the details of this situation.
sue me/Lane
Matt and Trip are outstanding people and obviously inspired businessmen. They manage to get out and play in the ocean almost every day and have nothing but possitive vibes on and off the water. They have a great family of employees that appear to love being here, most staying for many years. Real Kiteboarding has brought amazing energy to this community, locally and globally and I think they've done great things for this sport.
They are also in business, I suspect, so they can continue this lifestyle and make a living doing what they love. I've always been impressed with the whole business model, from the graphics down to the amount of time, energy and money they've put into it. Many kitesurfing retailers throw up a dull websites with little valuable info, and only sell gear backed up with minimal lessons. Real offers a the largest amount of instruction anywhere online on DVD or on the water. I'm sure there are plenty of easier ways to make money.
Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon, when no one really knows the details of this situation.
sue me/Lane
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GhostDog
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you can certainly trademark a common term
This Real forum was interesting for a while but I agree with Toby, it has degenerated into a REAL flamethrowing contest.
The entire premise of this forum is that REAL is suing these poor little kite retailers for using common words and they didn't even ask nicely for the retailer to stop before they sued them. NOBODY posting here knows that for a fact. The only FACT that we have is that a lawsuit has been filed.
Regarding trademarking of common terms, yes you can... From
http://www.secureyourtrademark.com/2007 ... words.html
Clients oftentimes call me to ask if they can get a trademark registration on a "common word" or a "common phrase." The question itself is always asked with a doubtful tone, as if they already know the answer is "no." However, to their surprise, the answer is a resounding "YES!". Or at least in some cases it is.
One example that I like to give to clients is that of Apple Inc, the famous computer and software manufacturer. The word "apple" is a very common word, and yet Apple Inc. had no problem trademarking the term APPLE for computers and computer programs. Why was this allowed? Because the word "apple" is an arbitrary word when used in connection with the manufacture and sale of computers and computer programs. That is, there is nothing about computers or computer programs that relates to apples. Accordingly, the term APPLE is actually a pretty strong trademark, as is the case when you apply a completely arbitrary term (however common it may be) to promote your products or services.
The case would be much different if I wanted to get a trademark on the word APPLE in connection with the sale of apples (the fruit). In that case, the name APPLE would simply be a generic term for the type of goods being provided, namely, apples. Because of this, the Trademark Office would never issue a federal trademark registration for the term APPLE if the only goods being provided were fruit products.
Common words or phrases are therefore well within the scope of trademark protection, so long as the words or phrases in question are not generic for the types of good or services being provided under them. After all, how else would TIME (the magazine), SHELL (the energy giant), and CATERPILLAR (the equipment manufacturer) get their trademark registrations?
About the author:
Xavier Morales is the owner of the Law Office of Xavier Morales, http://www.SecureYourTrademark.com focusing on Trademark Registration and domain name disputes since 2007. He can be reached at 1-866-618-2517 or by email: xm@secureyourtrademark.com
Labels: trademark registration, trademarking
So using the law as stated above, Zero To Hero as related to kiteboarding can very easily be trademarked, and really it is a good term and it SHOULD be trademarked. Water Time is questionable in my opinion as it has been used in similar business ventures, like wind surfing. Ground Control can certainly be trademarked because it too is 'arbitrary' when applied to kiteboarding.
The entire premise of this forum is that REAL is suing these poor little kite retailers for using common words and they didn't even ask nicely for the retailer to stop before they sued them. NOBODY posting here knows that for a fact. The only FACT that we have is that a lawsuit has been filed.
Regarding trademarking of common terms, yes you can... From
http://www.secureyourtrademark.com/2007 ... words.html
Clients oftentimes call me to ask if they can get a trademark registration on a "common word" or a "common phrase." The question itself is always asked with a doubtful tone, as if they already know the answer is "no." However, to their surprise, the answer is a resounding "YES!". Or at least in some cases it is.
One example that I like to give to clients is that of Apple Inc, the famous computer and software manufacturer. The word "apple" is a very common word, and yet Apple Inc. had no problem trademarking the term APPLE for computers and computer programs. Why was this allowed? Because the word "apple" is an arbitrary word when used in connection with the manufacture and sale of computers and computer programs. That is, there is nothing about computers or computer programs that relates to apples. Accordingly, the term APPLE is actually a pretty strong trademark, as is the case when you apply a completely arbitrary term (however common it may be) to promote your products or services.
The case would be much different if I wanted to get a trademark on the word APPLE in connection with the sale of apples (the fruit). In that case, the name APPLE would simply be a generic term for the type of goods being provided, namely, apples. Because of this, the Trademark Office would never issue a federal trademark registration for the term APPLE if the only goods being provided were fruit products.
Common words or phrases are therefore well within the scope of trademark protection, so long as the words or phrases in question are not generic for the types of good or services being provided under them. After all, how else would TIME (the magazine), SHELL (the energy giant), and CATERPILLAR (the equipment manufacturer) get their trademark registrations?
About the author:
Xavier Morales is the owner of the Law Office of Xavier Morales, http://www.SecureYourTrademark.com focusing on Trademark Registration and domain name disputes since 2007. He can be reached at 1-866-618-2517 or by email: xm@secureyourtrademark.com
Labels: trademark registration, trademarking
So using the law as stated above, Zero To Hero as related to kiteboarding can very easily be trademarked, and really it is a good term and it SHOULD be trademarked. Water Time is questionable in my opinion as it has been used in similar business ventures, like wind surfing. Ground Control can certainly be trademarked because it too is 'arbitrary' when applied to kiteboarding.
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dark conscience kiter
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ctkiteboarding
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lndpnt wrote:sucks to see where this whole incident has gone. It's mazing how these forums can turn into lynch mobs.
Matt and Trip are outstanding people and obviously inspired businessmen. They manage to get out and play in the ocean almost every day and have nothing but possitive vibes on and off the water. They have a great family of employees that appear to love being here, most staying for many years. Real Kiteboarding has brought amazing energy to this community, locally and globally and I think they've done great things for this sport.
They are also in business, I suspect, so they can continue this lifestyle and make a living doing what they love. I've always been impressed with the whole business model, from the graphics down to the amount of time, energy and money they've put into it. Many kitesurfing retailers throw up a dull websites with little valuable info, and only sell gear backed up with minimal lessons. Real offers a the largest amount of instruction anywhere online on DVD or on the water. I'm sure there are plenty of easier ways to make money.
Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon, when no one really knows the details of this situation.
sue me/Lane
lane my friend ,,, come on ,, real has alway been a " bottom line" co. that has crapped on and taken advantage of kiters for years ,
having watched them do this for 10 years or so it was just a matter of time before the REAL DEAL has come to kick them right in the balls ,
IMO they deserve everything they get and thier stoke is tainted and has always been the holy then thow we are "pro's " who are you attitude premeates around REAL and thier sucker slaves who work for them , they never got a dollar from me and never will R
p.s. when are your coming back to the REAL stoke of your CT kite family
ill get off my box now and try to get away from work to kite abit ,brrr cold as shiit here,
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