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Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

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markchatwin
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Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby markchatwin » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:14 pm

I'm interested in this kite for high winds and was wondering if it would work on either the North Quad bar or Slingshot bar. OR told me it would work on any equal line length bar. The OR bar has the "Y" about 10 feet up and flags to 2 center lines. I think this is similar to the North Quad bar. My SS bar is a low "Y" flagging to one center line. Any feelings as to which bar would work better in high wind?

OR uses a 20m line set on their bar. My SS is 23m I believe and I have North 22m and 24m Quad bars… Thanks!

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby murph68 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:25 pm

Slingshot all the way! Releasing onto 2 front lines in high winds = trouble!

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby markchatwin » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:51 pm

Then I wonder why OR designs their bar with the 2 line flagging system?

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby markchatwin » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:04 am

Looks like it's very similar to the North system:

http://www.oceanrodeo.com/products/abov ... oll_bridle

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:23 am

markchatwin wrote:Then I wonder why OR designs their bar with the 2 line flagging system?
Pretty sure a the bars can be rigged for single line, either by design or by a canny user...

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby Bushflyr » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:09 am

The flagging system doesn't really matter. Choose whatever bar you like. The gotcha is that OR rigs their lines backasswards from many other kite companies, so you may need to make new pigtails for the kite.

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby shawn13 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:44 pm

markchatwin wrote:Then I wonder why OR designs their bar with the 2 line flagging system?
I wonder this too, specially for a 'storm' kite.

My 7m and 10m switchblades NEVER flag properly in really strong winds with the Cab IDS 2 line flag system.

Maybe ORsales can add some imput.



Note: I cannot wait to dump my IDS systems for 1x Cab *Hint to companies for all future designs of 2 line flagging*

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby flipper231 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:54 pm

both front lines flagging system only dumps enough power so your kite will wait for you at the edge of the wind window with more or less power. Usually the kite will not take off on its own but to kill the kite 100% you need to pull the front lines to bring it down fully. once down on its back or resting on the LE, you will virtually feel no pull. This was developped for the folks doing FS or waves and dropping the bar, the system takes seconds to reload and relaunch the kite. But if you freeride and don't unhook killing your kite takes an extra step wich you might not have the time to take if you run into an hairy situation. Single front has its drawbacks, like the kite might spin around or pass through the lines and you are good for an hour of untagling the whole thing. Sometimes it just works like a charm and you can rearm in seconds.

Your OR kite can be flown on both but the North Y is pretty high so it may close the kite a bit which will affect its flying characteristics. For such a small kite I would prefer a single line flag out as you want it to die as much as the conditions will allow (don't want to use the term 100% if you are kiting in 50 knots) in one step especially if you pull the trigger on the beach because you came in to get safe from huge gusts...

2 front lines is like suicide with much more travel and a bar that ends up about 3 to 5 meters away from you.

Cheers!

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby ORSales » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:00 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the questions. Mark, stoked to see you're considering the Storm 5m.

To address your concerns about the flagging system I'll first say that all of our kites will fly perfectly well with a Slingshot single line re-ride system or similar. The only caveat to this is that we rig our bars to have 4x equal line lengths and then we add 2x 5" pigtail line extensions to the back lines as "kook proof" connectors. So long as you run your lines out and re-assure yourself that all 4 lines are equal length and then add the connectors to the back lines you should be just fine.

We've debated the merits of a 2 line depower vs a single line for years and honestly, there are great arguments for and against both systems. However, we feel we've currently struck the best accord between convenience and safety - here's our logic in very loose terms:

We feel that to be as safe as possible you need to assume the eventual failure of any given piece of equipment. In this case, I'm referring to the swivel. In the single front line system there is the chance that if the swivel fails and the front lines are wrapped up enough times as a result of looping the kite in only one direction the lines could bind and prevent a proper de-power upon eject. We also feel that flagging the kite off of only one line presents an opportunity for danger if the kite is ejected on the opposite side of the window as this will result in the kite needing to fly through the power zone on its way to being depowered. In our 2 line system the kite's bridle is specifically designed to roll the kite over onto its back and fly the kite down, into the water using the force of the wind to hold it on the water where it will be generating less drag (as it is stuck to the water) than a kite flopping around on one line. Of course, the added benefit of this is also that the kiter can then assess the situation and re-set their chicken loop on the water if they wish to re-launch and fly away. A 1 line system is almost always going to end up with a swim home and we as a company do not feel comfortable a) forcing someone to swim home if they eject and b) forcing them to do the mental calculation of if punching out is worth it if it was to result in a long swim. We'd rather they punched out to be safe and then had the chance to decide they are capable of resetting the CL and flying home.

Long winded answer over but rest assured, we are always re-evaluating the best way to ensure our customers are as safe as possible when on the water and the eject / depower systems on the kite and control bar are an area we spend a lot of time pondering the options on. Pretty much a topic of discussion over 1 of ever 5 lunches and 100% of every RnD meeting.

John Z - OR

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Re: Ocean Rodeo Storm 5m on North or Slingshot bar?

Postby Da Yoda » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:07 pm

North and Ocean Rodeo know what they're talking about. I had a single-line system "spiral" on me once. Not fun! Kites with pulleys seem to make it worse or more prone.
ORSales wrote:We've debated the merits of a 2 line depower vs a single line for years and honestly, there are great arguments for and against both systems. However, we feel we've currently struck the best accord between convenience and safety - here's our logic in very loose terms:

We feel that to be as safe as possible you need to assume the eventual failure of any given piece of equipment. In this case, I'm referring to the swivel. In the single front line system there is the chance that if the swivel fails and the front lines are wrapped up enough times as a result of looping the kite in only one direction the lines could bind and prevent a proper de-power upon eject. We also feel that flagging the kite off of only one line presents an opportunity for danger if the kite is ejected on the opposite side of the window as this will result in the kite needing to fly through the power zone on its way to being depowered. In our 2 line system the kite's bridle is specifically designed to roll the kite over onto its back and fly the kite down, into the water using the force of the wind to hold it on the water where it will be generating less drag (as it is stuck to the water) than a kite flopping around on one line. Of course, the added benefit of this is also that the kiter can then assess the situation and re-set their chicken loop on the water if they wish to re-launch and fly away. A 1 line system is almost always going to end up with a swim home and we as a company do not feel comfortable a) forcing someone to swim home if they eject and b) forcing them to do the mental calculation of if punching out is worth it if it was to result in a long swim. We'd rather they punched out to be safe and then had the chance to decide they are capable of resetting the CL and flying home.

John Z - OR
Dan-at-North wrote:Years ago we tested a safety that dropped to a single front line, but we found that some kites would go into a 'death spiral' when released onto a single front line. I am aware that many other brands now use the single-front-line system without a hitch, so my guess is that there's been some sort of general progression in kite design so that modern kites don't have this issue. Please don't respond to this thread with 'my brand x kites release perfectly on single front line stop bashing single front line'. I understand that there are advantages to a single front line release and I know that it works with many other brands' kites perfectly well. We have simply designed our kites around a dual-front-line release, and it works just as well for our kites as the single front-line system does with other brands' kites.

-Dan


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