iriejohn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:22 pm
PullStrings wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:12 pm
Matteo V wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:24 pm
If you are willing to develop a high degree of skill on a light wind directional, you can match and possibly exceed the performance of a light wind TT
I agree
But then again.
Matteo V wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:24 pm
Don't discount a light wind TT!
I initially believed the lie about surfboards being better at light winds than TT's. But LWTT's are just superior to even the most light wind directional. At least when comparing equal rider skill. If you are willing to develop a high degree of skill on a light wind directional, you can match and possibly exceed the performance of a light wind TT.
iriejohn - Read the above a bit more carefully and you will have it...............or let me spell it out for you - A high degree of skill on a light wind directional in steady winds with long reaches for minimizing lost ground during jibes or blown tacks, or again a high degree of tacking skill, will be able to match or exceed high performance LWTT's. Take any of those ideal conditions away, whether it be removing "ideal conditions" and trading them for "real world conditions" or even slightly lower skill, and a LWTT wins. It wins for the masses of kiteboarders. It wins for your average kiteboarder at your average kiteboarding location. It wins for everyone else I have observed who does not spend every possible day out on the water. Pick a random kiteboarder with some TT skill, and some directional skill, and they will be able to make the LWTT work better for light wind than the surfboard. Throw in shifty or gusty inland winds or less than ideal ocean conditions, and a LWTT will edge upwind while a surfboard is struggling to make enough flow over the fins to produce a foiling force to compare to the near instantaneous edging force of a LWTT.
Summed up, you have to put way more into riding a surfboard with regards to time and skill, in order to get the same performance out of it as you would with a LWTT. To exceed a LWTT's performance with a surfboard, you need ideal conditions/steady wind/long reaches/lots of time to develop skill.
NorCalNomad wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:19 am
Matteo V wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:24 pm
Surfboards, in general, just do not go upwind better than a light wind TT.
ahahahahahahah that's a fucking good joke.
I would have agreed with you before my experiences led me to come to the contrary conclusion. I would have mirrored your above post's position naught but 6 years ago, though in a more tactful manner. Around then, I began to develop my directional skills more seriously, having bought in on the mentality you are expressing. After gaining experience and comparing my riding TT's and directional "back to back", I came to the opposite conclusion of your current position. I would give your position merit if I would have ever come across anyone with your feelings who could back it up by actually showing me in their riding.
But I observed other kiters in the same situation coming from TT's to surfboards. The same sentiment I was beginning to develop said LWTT's were superior to surfboards, was expressed by all other kiters of my skill level. Then I started asking many levels of kiters, less and more skilled than me, about TT vs. surfboard upwind. All have verified that upwind on a LWTT is superior to a surfboard when taken on average, or when accounting for beginner to intermediate skill (most say advanced too), and when comparing less than ideal conditions. I appreciate your dissent as it allows clarification of my position. But I do feel that your are somewhat stuck on that old position and not really willing to question your own ideals. Maybe you could examine why surfboards are not the staple of light wind today. I am sure you would cite that surfboards are not the easiest to ride for everyone, so less people ride them. But that would be, in a way, proving my hypothesis that they are simply not as easy to get upwind with as LWTT's.
I do love surfboards and ride them nearly exclusively. I have even lost some of my TT skills in recent years due to lack of use. I am not saying surfboards are bad. I am just saying that there are some BS ideas passed around that seem to self perpetuate. I am just as much a victim of them as other kiters that take a path similar to mine. But after putting in the time and making sure to compare during the same sessions, I am positive that the LWTT is superior to the surfboard and that my ranking holds weight against any other ordering. Again, this is me saying I have held your position, then proved that position I held, wrong. I am not ashamed to have been wrong. But I am happy to have the wherewithal to examine my convictions and correct them when they are held in error.
I am sure you will stick to your guns on this one, so how would you re-order my list of light wind capabilities?
Here is a scale from lightest wind to highest.
1. Hydrofoil
2. "Old school" raceboard (surfboard with racing fins)
3. Light wind twin-tip
4. Custom or purpose built LW surfboard (Sector series down to SS "Alien Twister")
5. Large standard surfboard
6. Medium to large twin-tip
7. Medium surfboard
8. Small standard surfboard
9. Small or highly rockered TT
#8 and #9 would swap if you used them in light wind. But at the typical wind speeds (high) they are used in, the small surfboard with standard surf fins, would be able to use those fins to beat the small or highly rockered TT upwind by foiling off of the fins.