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Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

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Living2Kite
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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby Living2Kite » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:58 pm

Robbylion wrote:
Toby wrote:According to Ken Winner:

When the Y is too high all kites turn less responsive
So why don't North put it all the way down, just above the depower line?
Well because people can then go onto Ebay for example and buy any equal length quad line set for $50 and fit them in 3 minutes.

If a Y really matters then forget line extensions for a start.

Living2Kite
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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby Living2Kite » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:08 pm

eree wrote:
Robbylion wrote:
Toby wrote:According to Ken Winner:
When the Y is too high all kites turn less responsive
So why don't North put it all the way down, just above the depower line?
because the single frontline safety lines length depends on the height of the Y.
the higher the Y, the longer is the safety line, the better kite flags out.
I don't understand that. Many kites accept 4 equal length lines so the kite has no Y line and the safety remains the same and you save money and the kite company loses it as you buy any quad line set.

For exampe: Image

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby Hansen Design » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:14 pm

Ultimately, when you pull on a rear line to turn a kite you are pulling against the tension in the opposite front line. A 'Y' in the front lines creates an angular 'kink' and an indirect pull. The higher the 'Y', the greater the angle. When the tension in the front lines is low, you can watch the 'Y' move transversely toward the opposite front line causing a steering delay. Powered up it is less noticable but, in some measure, still there.
:thumb:

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby atomic-chomik » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:57 am

Nice explanation Hansen. I was using an OceanRodeo bar which was low y on my 2014 dice and it seemed to work fine. However, when my North Quad bar showed up it was significant the difference in reactivity and feel it made.

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby Westozzy » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:00 pm

I to ran my 2014 dices on a low Y to increase reactivity and power. Reduced the throw length at which I would stall the kite easier. but when flying at the kites top end the high Y came out. Far more stable. Funny enough the new 2015 dice flies similar to the 2014 dice on a lower Y. They have also dropped the Y by a metre in the 2015 bar.

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby rustyb » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:12 pm

i have a 2014 ocean rodeo 14.5 meter flite with a ocean rodeo freestyle bar and lines,21 meter line set. I want to purchase a 2013-2014 north trust quad bar to use with this kite. The ocean rodeo bar is set up to totally depower on both front centerlines. I was told that the north quad bar 2013-2014 is set up also to flag out on both centerlines also ,is this correct? I cannot find any information on the difference in line lengths on the north bar between the front center lines and rear flying lines. I am trying to find out how far up the y front centerline connection is on the north bar compared to the ocean rodeo bar.

Does someone have this information?
thanks

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby Westozzy » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:26 am

Yes that is correct, to both fronts. The height of the Y not sure on the quad I only use the fifth line bars, sorry (which is 12.9m) give or take from the end of the lines back to the Y. 13.9 on the 2015 bars.

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:36 am

rustyb wrote:i have a 2014 ocean rodeo 14.5 meter flite with a ocean rodeo freestyle bar and lines,21 meter line set. I want to purchase a 2013-2014 north trust quad bar to use with this kite. The ocean rodeo bar is set up to totally depower on both front centerlines. I was told that the north quad bar 2013-2014 is set up also to flag out on both centerlines also ,is this correct? I cannot find any information on the difference in line lengths on the north bar between the front center lines and rear flying lines. I am trying to find out how far up the y front centerline connection is on the north bar compared to the ocean rodeo bar.

Does someone have this information?
thanks
I think the Switch Controller2 bar (possibly the first one as well) has an adjustable V point. Their website has a lot of information and videos on tuning the bar to match the kite. I suspect you may find this an easier match to the flite than the North bar.

The only bad thing I have heard about the new bar is that they are a bit heavier than the competition. Possibly worth a look?

<edit> I'm only mentioning because the original was a close copy of the North bar. </edit>

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby sarc » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:11 am

Just speaking for North Rebels (2007, 2009, 2012). I make my own bars/line sets and I tried different settings: for these Rebels, a Y split near the kite had very strong negative effect on overall power and turning. I think it was pinching together the front tips. I just copy the Y distance of standard North bar and all is good.

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Re: Bar Low "Y" or high "Y' 4 line bar

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:30 am

So I am fqcing a lineset decision for a custom bar/line project and this very issue has come up. Low V vs High Y (new Naish 5 line vs old Naish 5 line) and I am trying to understand the performance differences.

My takeaways:

- a high Y offers more support in strong gusty winds at the high end of the kite range (I blv this, in Cape Town my TOrch is the only thing that didnt transmit 100 dba of noise to me via the bar, it was steady in some seriously punchy stuff)
- changes the angle of the opposite front flying vs its corresponding wingtip (eg, front right line vs wingtip left line), creating a quicker turning kite "reactivity", (really more a question of how quickly the kite starts responding?)
- better depower when flagging out (dunno, I have no complaints against any single or 5th line flag out system atm)

-too high of a Y starts to degrade performance, espeically if wingtips are pinched in
- lower Y or even low V better in lighter winds
- low V increases power?

How does the High Y behave in relation to a low V when doing something like a kiteloop? WIll the caopy shape change?

My Torchies are soooo sensitive to canopy shape, I have been experimenting with different bar tuning (different line lengths using pigtail extension of different lengths) nad have discovered the Torch is very touchy about relative lengths. There is a specific shape I like it to have (factory shape). Due both to weight an style, I fly my kites at the the high end of their wind range (usually far in excess of the stated high end)

I do have 5 line North bar as well as 4 line Naish and 4 line North bars s I can experiment with as well, guess I will put it on my Torch and see how it flies this week as we have weak wind. Play around with it to help me decide low V vs low or high Y for my Wunderbar project.


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