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High Y vs Low V bars

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:46 pm

I 'think' the Y split theoretically reduces wear on the lines a little. When the lines cross, they wrap below the split point so the force is not trying to pull outwards. On the V bars I would see more obvious wear (fuzzing of the lines) at the point where the lines cross.
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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby dracop » Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:28 pm

Ive been flying my Duotone kites on a low V setup (Click Bar with V Distributor removed) and most of the newer ones fly great. The older ones WILL flag out though but flight performance impacted.

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby SolarSet » Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:43 am

dracop wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:28 pm
Ive been flying my Duotone kites on a low V setup (Click Bar with V Distributor removed) and most of the newer ones fly great. The older ones WILL flag out though but flight performance impacted.
Why did you remove it? Just got Click Bar and I will use it with Evo's '22 and was thinking about using Low V so I could easier lunch/land kite.

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby KVL » Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:43 pm

I got the Click bar and the Fone Bandit S3 kites. Fone comes with high Y, as the Click bar does, though at different heights.
I fly the kites with with the Click bar without the splitter, so low V, and find the kites much more a live and agile compared to high Y. I had the same feeling when using the Neo. The high Y just makes the kite a bit more quiet and conservative. I prefer the low V and the better response. I dont see extra wear. And self landing is so much easier with low V. Cant tell if it is actual or placebo.

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby Smeagle » Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:59 pm

KVL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:43 pm
I fly the kites with with the Click bar without the splitter, so low V, and find the kites much more a live and agile compared to high Y. I had the same feeling when using the Neo. The high Y just makes the kite a bit more quiet and conservative. I prefer the low V and the better response.
That's strange, should be the opposite. High Y should give faster turning and better High End compared to better low end but less turning speed with V. But the difference is not big.

But Y does also shorten the front lines a bit, maybe you didn't compensate that when comparing? When going from Y to V you need to pull adjuster a little to compare. You can calculate it exactly, but I prefer to just trimm for "stall after 5 seconds at full power" or some other trimm to your likeing.

- Oliver

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:20 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:43 am
dracop wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:28 pm
Ive been flying my Duotone kites on a low V setup (Click Bar with V Distributor removed) and most of the newer ones fly great. The older ones WILL flag out though but flight performance impacted.
Why did you remove it? Just got Click Bar and I will use it with Evo's '22 and was thinking about using Low V so I could easier lunch/land kite.
I've flown my Evo 22 with a low V for hydrofoiling because my long lines bar (28m lines) is low V and I couldn't be bothered to put a distributor on and work out the correct height. It seemed fine though I'm talking 15knots. I've also seen Duotone reps post footage with low V on the Evo SLS. When you speak to them they do acknowledge a small difference but they prefer to be able to line mount a Go Pro and its a bit dodgy doing than below the distributor.

I reckon you'd notice it at the real high end. I've tried my kite with a Core Sensor bar on 24m lines and I really didn't like it - which is surprising as I liked my Rebel '19 on the same bar and I like the ergonomics in general. My theory is that the smaller Evos really don't feel as nice on longer line lengths as I've run the same kite on 20m lines on a Flysurfer bar and that felt fine (was powered up right at my limit though) so not sure its just the quality of the lines.
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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby KVL » Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:28 pm

Smeagle wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:59 pm
KVL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:43 pm
I fly the kites with with the Click bar without the splitter, so low V, and find the kites much more a live and agile compared to high Y. I had the same feeling when using the Neo. The high Y just makes the kite a bit more quiet and conservative. I prefer the low V and the better response.
That's strange, should be the opposite. High Y should give faster turning and better High End compared to better low end but less turning speed with V. But the difference is not big.

But Y does also shorten the front lines a bit, maybe you didn't compensate that when comparing? When going from Y to V you need to pull adjuster a little to compare. You can calculate it exactly, but I prefer to just trimm for "stall after 5 seconds at full power" or some other trimm to your likeing.

- Oliver
Oliver, I would say the bar is perfect trimmet and kite sits fine.

Why is it the kite should get faster turning and better high end with Y compared to V - in theory or common sense?
Yeah, we can calculate, but I think it is such a small difference I believe (as I haven't calculates it.. :)) but again, then we have to take into account if we calculate according to a 5m2 or 12m2 kite - with same bar. Then the different might be the same, less or more as without splitter but with trim...

I don't understand it.. :) but weird I feel the opposite.. :) as said, maybe placebo...

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby foxzone » Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:50 pm

I have two XR6's. I like them better on low V bar (slingshot sentry) and sold Core's high V bar. They are faster and less bar pressure. For my 13.5m I had to add 8cm backline extension to compensate the difference. For my 9m I added around 4cm. Also on core's high V bar, kites would not entirely flag out on one line if needed in high wind.

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby edt » Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:13 pm

KVL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:28 pm


Why is it the kite should get faster turning and better high end with Y compared to V - in theory or common sense?
Yeah, we can calculate, but I think it is such a small difference I believe (as I haven't calculates it.. :)) but again, then we have to take into
it's 2 or 3 pounds a kg or two effectively pinching the wingtips inwards. Go set your kite on it's edge like you are going to launch it and then place a small sandbag on the tip. It will deform. So it's not the amount that matters so much as exactly where the extra pressure is creating by moving the V to a high Y. The place the pressure is deforms the kite quite a bit in some models (others it doesn't deform it as much).
As for whether or not it turns faster or slower, that all depends on the kite design. Some kites don't care if you pinch them in with a high Y or V they fly the same either way, while other kites were designed with the high Y in mind and won't fly properly without that extra pinching on the tips. Theoretically the smaller and lower aspect the kite (like a 7m Evo) the less it matters if you have a Y or a V while high aspect large kites (like a 14m rebel) should feel the difference a lot more.
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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby Smeagle » Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:21 am

KVL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:28 pm
Why is it the kite should get faster turning and better high end with Y compared to V - in theory or common sense?
Yeah, we can calculate, but I think it is such a small difference I believe (as I haven't calculates it.. :)) but again, then we have to take into account if we calculate according to a 5m2 or
Shorter lines (or Y closer to the kite) will result in the kite beeing pulled "narrower", less projected area and faster turning. Longer lines (or Y/V farther away from kite) will result in the kite standing more "flat", higher projected area but slower turining. And yes, a large kite will have more noticable difference than a small kite.

But all in all the difference is really very small. I used some Y-Kites with V-Bars and vice versa and I did test it, and the difference was really subtle.

But always a good idea to test it.

- Oliver


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