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Casualty in Sicily

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dkazhdan
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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby dkazhdan » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:29 am

foilholio wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:46 pm
The great contradiction of kite size safety is small kites will loft you less but kill you easier if they do..

This is an interesting statement,
I have been switching to foiling recently, mostly because of being scared of flying big kites, so I've always been under the impression that flying small kites is safer.
so I was being wrong there then?

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downunder
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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby downunder » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:12 am

Absolutely.

What is more safe to drive, a truck or a buggy? ;)

Do you guys realise that one of things keeping Toby safe, is his 18m kite? :) Plus not going out on 30kn, etc

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deniska
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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby deniska » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:26 pm

dkazhdan wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:29 am
foilholio wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:46 pm
The great contradiction of kite size safety is small kites will loft you less but kill you easier if they do..
I have been switching to foiling recently, mostly because of being scared of flying big kites, so I've always been under the impression that flying small kites is safer.
so I was being wrong there then?
Statistically, flying small kites are more dangerous, simply because they are designed for higher and more dangerous wind range.
Foiling just solves it by allowing use of ridiculously small kites for conditions.
But if you trade big kites for hydrofoils to improve safety, I say it's a zero sum game at most.
Foils find creative ways of trying to hurt you (hitting, stubbing, twisting ankles, jumping in to the lines, etc), no wonder much bigger percent of foilers wear helmets, vests and other safety gear, than say TT riders.
Me personally, I only foil with big kites: 12 & 17. If conditions call for 9 or 7, I'll be on TT with those small kites.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby dkazhdan » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:46 pm

deniska wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:26 pm

Statistically, flying small kites are more dangerous, simply because they are designed for higher and more dangerous wind range.
Foiling just solves it by allowing use of ridiculously small kites for conditions.
But if you trade big kites for hydrofoils to improve safety, I say it's a zero sum game at most.
Foils find creative ways of trying to hurt you (hitting, stubbing, twisting ankles, jumping in to the lines, etc), no wonder much bigger percent of foilers wear helmets, vests and other safety gear, than say TT riders.
Me personally, I only foil with big kites: 12 & 17. If conditions call for 9 or 7, I'll be on TT with those small kites.
Yes this sounds very true

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby junebug » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:24 pm

If you take the foil out of the equation, flying a smaller kite is much safer. I fly a 12m kite on a twintip in 16kn. On a foil, I fly a 5m in those conditions. If the shit hits the fan, I want to be dealing with an out of control 5m much more than an out of control 12m.

Putting the foil back into the equation, yes, it adds an element of risk, but unless you are a total beginner, racing, or foiling in real waves, the risk is low, and the risk of a serious injury or fatality is even lower.

I think that, on balance, and, excepting the caveats above, freeride foiling is much safer because of the smaller kites.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby Toby » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:52 pm

downunder wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:12 am
Absolutely.

What is more safe to drive, a truck or a buggy? ;)

Do you guys realise that one of things keeping Toby safe, is his 18m kite? :) Plus not going out on 30kn, etc
you got it right. plus gives you more confidence to throw new tricks.

An 18 doesn't deathloop....

And I rather have an 18 looping on the beach than a 12 in the same wind. 18 is a powerful, steady pull. A 12 has an explosive pull if it loops.

Everyone has to find their gear what they think keeps them the safest. Think twice and not only listen to one side.

And never forget: nothing is 100% safe

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby foilholio » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:11 pm

Exactly. We are in the slow kite club lol.

I'll add I think foil kites are almost death loop proof even the small ones. The big ones turn very slow so that helps, but the conditions to get a foil to loop continuously and with power are quite difficult. It takes all those bridles to be in perfection for them to work otherwise they just don't fly well. If they hit the water too they generally won't self relaunch, especially if tangled.

Foil kites are also very reliable on safety and very effective with little pull even if tangled in many ways. Absolutely no problem self landing to safety in 40+knots. They also stick to the water really well. A wet kite will stick to the beach too.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby downunder » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:01 pm

Well,

U do realize that u progressed to foils, I hope? Introduce foils to beginners, snd this is a receipt for drownings. Big time. Not to mention launching...

The “religious” views are receipt for disaster.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby foilholio » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:43 pm

If you can't swim or worry about it wear flotation.

No need to feel religious. The facts are a large rock thrown to the head vs a few gallons of water are quite different in their outcome.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby PullStrings » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:02 pm

deniska wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:45 am

Don't be so sure, if you have new version (tektanium safety line, covered in plastic) - it jams pretty easy with sand, especially on big days, when sand is flying.
The problem is that the the metal tube inside the rotator is way too narrow. Wet PU line catches sand and then, even with very little amount it can get jammed, because unlike previous soft rope, the new plastic cover does not give in even if serious force is applied.
How I know? I was caught in a squall trying to flag with kite on a side of the wind window, touching the ground. It took 2-3 seconds and some pushing with my hand to make the rotator move along the plastic line.... pretty scary few seconds as I was sitting on my butt trying to hold my ground and get rid of the kite..
Interesting and you should know because you take your two Core bars in really high winds
With my two older version bars..... each always attached to their own Core kite...they are used in winds up to 24 kn...so no sand blowing in it to jam anything
What i really trust " in high winds" are my North Trust bars ( got 5 of them attached to 5 North kites ) with their great push way mechanical system
Not a big fan of the Core steel pin looped over a rope system....so i do see your good points in more dangerous conditions


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