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Moses 2019

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trod27
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby trod27 » Wed May 22, 2019 3:25 am

I rode my 683s/710/450/91 on DC 42" with mast all the way back for only a hour first time ever. It felt good, but wind was dying so I came in. Been raining ever since:)
I was riding in same foot position as 633 with same set up. My front foot is right behind third hole from front.
I rode the 633 on the same set up for 3 days and it rode the same as 749/483.
My guess is there is no difference in foot pressure. I hope the weather clears and I can ride again this weekend.

grigorib
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Wed May 22, 2019 4:21 am

trod27 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:25 am
I rode my 683s/710/450/91 on DC 42" with mast all the way back for only a hour first time ever. It felt good, but wind was dying so I came in. Been raining ever since:)
I was riding in same foot position as 633 with same set up. My front foot is right behind third hole from front.
I rode the 633 on the same set up for 3 days and it rode the same as 749/483.
My guess is there is no difference in foot pressure. I hope the weather clears and I can ride again this weekend.
I think my 633 takes slightly forward foot position compared to 683s.

If you get a chance to do 633/710/450/91 with DC 42” it’d be cool to know if foot position stays the same

alowishus
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby alowishus » Wed May 22, 2019 6:15 am

Based on appearances, and I haven't seen the 450 in person, but it seems like the 450 stabilizer is kind of like a slightly elongated SS 42cm hoverglide wing.
Same chord length (85mm), turned up winglets, rounded tips, but longer so slightly higher aspect (6.2 vs 5.3).
Slightly difference profile etc., but all in all, looks very similar...

grigorib
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Thu May 23, 2019 12:03 am

So I reported few days back that on the same board my 683s/710/450/105 needed stance 2" forward compared to 683s/749/483/91.
I was lucky to get some winds today, rode by myself so here's what I did and what effect changes had:

0. to start with I put back 91cm mast for all 3 below trials. Not my preferred length for deep water but that's what I rode 683s with for two weeks back in April on OBX trip
1. 683s/710/450/91 felt same as 683s/710/450/105. So it's not a mast question (even though 105cm mast needs to be placed 7mm forward compared to 91cm to have wing in same position, it actually mounts slightly different, so it was about 5mm forward - consider it the same)
2. I replaced fuselage with 749. 683s/749/450/91 felt very similar to 683s/710/450/91 - just as much front foot pressure, maybe a tiny bit different feeling overall, but barely noticeable. So my conclusion is that 13mm forward mast position on 710 is equalized by 27mm more forward stabilizer. But I like 710 very much since it's compact.
3. My 483 stabilizer is getting wingtips repaired so I couldn't replace 450 with 483. What I did instead is I put 710 fuselage back and rode 683s/710/450/91 but I shimmed stabilizer to point it up using washer (took the washer from under mast-fuselage bolt. It felt amazing - my foot position was back where it was and whole setup rode smooth and fast.

What remains is to try 683s/710/483/91 when I get 483 back and compare it to 683s/710/450/91 (without shim).
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alowishus
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby alowishus » Thu May 23, 2019 12:34 am

grigorib wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:03 am
What remains is to try 683s/710/483/91 when I get 483 back and compare it to 683s/710/450/91 (without shim).
Awesome stuff grigorib. Really good info. Your field tests are much appreciated by all :D
Will be very interesting how the two stabs compare wrt carving, gybes, riding swell and going fast etc.
Hopefully you will get some good conditions to put them through their paces.

trod27
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby trod27 » Thu May 23, 2019 4:56 am

Grig thanks for review. I am curious if the 633/683 will have issues on SS DC micro? I have one ordered and I hear the track is further forward then my DC 42 regular.

grigorib
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Thu May 23, 2019 6:17 am

trod27 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:56 am
Grig thanks for review. I am curious if the 633/683 will have issues on SS DC micro? I have one ordered and I hear the track is further forward then my DC 42 regular.
Yes the track is more forward on micro compared to any other 42” Dwarfcraft model. There’s plenty room to stand but certainly you’d want to mount the mast all the way back.

I rode 633/749/483/105 mounted on Micro and it was good riding.

grigorib
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Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s/633 wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Thu May 23, 2019 2:09 pm

Distance between nearest bolts of wing and stabilizer
749 507mm
710 467mm
647 500mm
so it tells me I shouldn’t need two separate fuselages

Moses team, please consider releasing larger than 590 wing for 647 kitefoil fuselage, something 683s size or tad smaller. The wing can extend arrowshape forward and an inch back to end right before fuselage-mast front bolt.
Pair it with large stabilizer if you’d like to keep sales up but carrying two fuselages for people who fly with gear is a major hassle.
I think we’re well past the point of question whether kitefoiling needs larger wings as well. 548 was a first wake up call, 590 followed and I consider Gunnar who was the one clearing doubts and propped the demands on 633 for kiting :)

#needa683sfor647 :)

tkaraszewski
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby tkaraszewski » Thu May 23, 2019 4:30 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:09 pm
Distance between nearest bolts of wing and stabilizer
749 507mm
710 467mm
647 500mm
so it tells me I shouldn’t need two separate fuselages

Moses team, please consider releasing larger than 590 wing for 647 kitefoil fuselage, something 683s size or tad smaller. The wing can extend arrowshape forward and an inch back to end right before fuselage-mast front bolt.
Pair it with large stabilizer if you’d like to keep sales up but carrying two fuselages for people who fly with gear is a major hassle.
I think we’re well past the point of question whether kitefoiling needs larger wings as well. 548 was a first wake up call, 590 followed and I consider Gunnar who was the one clearing doubts and propped the demands on 633 for kiting :)

#needa683sfor647 :)
I'm planning to build a custom larger wing that mounts to the 647 fuselage, however my first design roughly splits the difference in size between the 590 and 683s (and is higher aspect, similar to the 550, but bigger).

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s/633 wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42"
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Thu May 23, 2019 4:36 pm

tkaraszewski wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:30 pm
grigorib wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:09 pm
Distance between nearest bolts of wing and stabilizer
749 507mm
710 467mm
647 500mm
so it tells me I shouldn’t need two separate fuselages

Moses team, please consider releasing larger than 590 wing for 647 kitefoil fuselage, something 683s size or tad smaller. The wing can extend arrowshape forward and an inch back to end right before fuselage-mast front bolt.
Pair it with large stabilizer if you’d like to keep sales up but carrying two fuselages for people who fly with gear is a major hassle.
I think we’re well past the point of question whether kitefoiling needs larger wings as well. 548 was a first wake up call, 590 followed and I consider Gunnar who was the one clearing doubts and propped the demands on 633 for kiting :)

#needa683sfor647 :)
I'm planning to build a custom larger wing that mounts to the 647 fuselage, however my first design roughly splits the difference in size between the 590 and 683s (and is higher aspect, similar to the 550, but bigger).
It’d be cool to take a 683 (windsurf wing, without “tail” in the back) and CNC an adapter to 647 for it.

I’d say a large kitefoil wing should stay thin <20mm and be <1000 sq.cm in size for my 200 lbs. the major point for it - to be able to go slow and start in lightwind without stalling and without board having to touch water.

In my opinion 550 had too straight of leading edge line and to fight seaweed better I’d arrowhead it a bit


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