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Flysurfer Peak 4

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:55 pm

Sounds good irwe :thumb:

Although when you say it does not have same peak power, that sounds a tad like a turnoff for me, especially in the medium sizes.

The small Peak4 kites has loads of peak power because they are small yes, but also because they are superlight and relatively low drag (not as low as race kites no).
The very reason why average weights can ride down to 10-11 knots with a 5 m2.

Meaning a good balance between drift and peak power on demand - the latter is the most essential about these kites, so you can ride with a small kite in waves, and still get up foiling super easy.

It sounds like the FF has even more drift capability, on cost of low end and peak power - also a nice kite, a shame it is not accessible here in Europe really.

8) Peter

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:11 pm

Light kite have less peak power than heavy kite. Reason for this is you can directly change kite forward speed momentum for lift. Heavy kite have more momentum = more energy to change for lift

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:14 pm

Peak power = power spike

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:24 pm

a99 and Flyboy:

I dont know what the lowend is, yet.

Have ridden it 1½ hour thats it - will take a loooong time to find out.

How it compares to a LEI is difficult to check, as I dont ride these much on foils, only when wind is between 7 and 9 knots I use a strutless 12 m2 sometimes, otherwise in both less and more wind it is usually foil kites.
I would think the 6 m2 corresponds to an 8-9 m2 LEI as you say, yes.

I dont care much though, as it is 1 m2 bigger than the 5, so that is what we are many having missed it seems here on the forum, this size - as the 8 is great, but for light wind 8-9 knots maybe longer lines, and not for aggressive waveriding/turning and super agility.

The 6 is :thumb:

4 and 6 I am certain can overlap indeed :naughty:

But having said that, I would not do it myself, but that goes with everything - small steps are much better and easier in my experience:
You can choose the exact size you need on a given day, instead of knowing you take one a bit big or a bit small, on many days.
You dont have to be uncertain which size to choose - you choose the right size now.
Also, IF shit happens and you wreck a kite, you can still ride on the rest of the day, in maybe "mythical" good conditions - what a shame to NOT have a kite here...
Not more expensive at all, as you distribute the wear over several sizes, so same same in the long run :wink:

I bought a 4 an 6 m2 Duotone V2 for wingfoil, thinking it could work just fine.
But kept my old 5 m2 V1, just in case...
And found out I use the 5 m2 in between so often, that I would NEVER rely on 4 and 6 only.
I know its not kitefoil, but somewhat related regarding sizing.

Peak4 in 4 and 6 can work indeed, ranging for the average weight on surf foils from 9-10 knots and up to 20 I believe - well you can survive in more, but it should also be pleasant, right?

3-4-6 could be a great choice indeed, as a complete quiver ranging from below 10 knots to 25 knots or more.

Again, I only have these 1½ hour on the 6 m2 kite - but seeing and feeling that it turns awesome, is key point for me, so it is a winner in my book (can not speak for others) :D

8) Peter
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby drsurf » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:47 pm

No review of the 6m Peak4 from me I'm afraid, rarely had wind light enough for the 5m lately 8)

However I had been following jumpthesharks comments about using the 3m with short lines in high winds so it was only a matter of time before the opportunity came up for me to give this option a try. Last week the wind was gusting to 30 knots and this would normally make the 3m too fast for my 65kg, outrunning waves and fluttering all the time as I depowered the kite.

I had put together a bar and lines from bits and pieces including a number of extension lines I had lying around. The overall length was approx 12m from bar to bridle connection and so I was good to go. It was only when I got out on the water and was flogging the kite all over the place to get up on the board I saw I had made a bit of an error in setting up my 12m bar and lines. The particular bar I used had leader lines of approx 5m which meant that the Y or V started only about 7m from the bridle connection :duh:

Considering the Connect Bar for the Peak4 has the Y/V start at 14m from the bridle attachment point, I had reduced this to half of what the kite was designed for. However I was able to get up on the board and foiling and from then on I gradually got used to the setup. I'm sure the line setup choked the width of the kite unnecessarily but it still worked, and the concept of shortening the lines on an already small kite for better strong wind performance is definitely proven!

I'll make up a better low V short line setup so I can handle those strong wind days. It seems a long way from the early days when I started foiling and thought once the wind gets around 15 - 20 knots it'll be TT or surfboard. With the Peak4 3m, 4m and 5m I'm good from 8 knots to 30knots plus :D

The next day I had to toss up whether to use the 4m or 5m Peak4 as the wind was only 10 to 14 knots. I guess now with a surf foil my motto is when in doubt go small :P 4m it was and the conditions were superb, I had just enough power to do everything I wanted and very little power when I caught some small swell and rode it down the beach with virtually no assistance from the kite. The light wind and the timing of being at the top of the tide meant no current from the nearby creek which can disturb the foil as it runs out. The water was crystal clear and I could see to the sandy bottom 2 m below. Then just as the tide turned I did some runs where the creek enters the bay and below me lazily swimming along was a shark approx 2.5 - 3m long. I circled around and followed it out into deeper, darker water where it disappeared. I think it came by to see what was coming out of the creek as the tide started running out. I saw a similar shark a few weeks ago in the same area in even shallower water.

Needless to say I foiled carefully around this predator as I didn't really want to make too close an acquaintance by falling on him/her. Still I'm pretty chuffed that the ecosystem in our area seems in pretty good condition with the likelihood of foiling with sharks, dolphins, penguins and whales all possible. I think foiling not only gives you a higher vantage point for observing what's in the ocean, it also is possibly less noticed by the various marine animals due to the quiet smooth ride a foil gives. Saw another shark an hour later just meters from the shore, but it was a 1m Wobbegong or carpet shark which mainly eats octopuses, crabs, lobsters and small fish. It's teeth are very small :)
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:52 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:11 pm
Light kite have less peak power than heavy kite. Reason for this is you can directly change kite forward speed momentum for lift. Heavy kite have more momentum = more energy to change for lift

Sorry to say tomtom, but this is definitely not true...

I havent calculated on this, but pretty certain the kinetic energy (momentum almost) of a kite that can be converted to pull is almost nothing, and pretty besides the point also...

The thing is, that the heavier a kite is (or ANY object) the more force (pull or loss in power down through the lines) is needed to accelerate the kite.

That goes both for accelerating straight, or when turning.
As a turn IS the same as acceleration.

So the heavier the kite, the worse it turns and accelerates - a huge amount of loss, so you lose a lot of "power" down to you on your board :(

Also, if heavy, it can not fly "up" in lighter winds, does not accelerate nearly the same at least, thus you kill the up power spike totally.

Yes, it got a reasonable powerspike when dived and longer lines as gravity helps, but it will be taken away again when flown up - and overall a lot less power/pull available, and not on demand either, compared to a lighter kite that can accelerate in all directions in the wind window, much faster.

So no, weight is never a good thing whatsoever - regarding flying characteristics :wink:

Weight is for durability, and important here yes (but can also to some extent be bad design/craftsmanship or cheap materials) and nothing but that.

8) Peter

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:42 pm

neilhapgood wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:43 am
legend, thanks so much for that Peter
+1

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:37 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:52 pm
tomtom wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:11 pm
Light kite have less peak power than heavy kite. Reason for this is you can directly change kite forward speed momentum for lift. Heavy kite have more momentum = more energy to change for lift

Sorry to say tomtom, but this is definitely not true...

dont have time for explaining and arguing.

Things are multifactorial - dont have one reason. Maybe you have different things in mind mind - but you often talk about peak power of small peaks. You mean power stroke?
If yes then i respectfully disagree. Peaks dont have strong power stroke - that why they almost dont jump at all. They are mellowest kite ever - thats why we all love them
And they lightness and intertia less is one of reason behind. And no - interia of kite is not "almost" nothing - 3kg thing going 80kmh have energy to lift 80kg verticaly 1m... This is quite a lot energy if ramped to get you on foil.
And 3kg is easily difference between simmilary sized closed cell kite and peak /including trapped air/. It also reflect what i experience riding closed cell kite vs Peak


https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculat ... inetic.php
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculat ... ential.php
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:40 pm

I'm not any kind of mechanical engineer ... but I'm sure some on Kiteforum are, & will weigh in ... but my primitive understanding suggests that kites work on the same principle as a slingshot. A slingshot with no weight on the end of it is going to generate less force than one with a stone in it ... no? Big air, mega looping kiters use relatively heavy kites, not foil kites (check with Pumpy). I would guess there are other factors at play which make foil kites good for foiling ... & particularly Peak4s.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Jyoder » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:52 pm

Can you water start in lower wind if your kite is wet and heavy because, by your logic, it now “has a bigger power spike”?

Maybe I should start dunking my kite before light wind sessions!


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