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Flysurfer Peak 4

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geron
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby geron » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:31 pm

Thanks Peter, what I was missing was the high wind range concept; now I understand more, but it makes more sense to me for the small sizes than the lager ones.
(Mabe because the power stroke of my bar is too short?)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby flaps1111 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:18 pm

Foil_Adict wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:20 pm
Got a chance to fly the 13m today. First impression after rolling it out....I have made a HUGE mistake....LoL. Just kidding, but this thing is enormous after only flying the 5 and 3 for the past 2 years. Wind was a little stronger than I was hoping for at around 8-12mph directly onshore. Didn't have time to get on the water but got a good feel for this tractor. Despite being near the top of it's wind range it was very well behaved and easy to fly. Much slower of course with constant pull when sheeted in. Anxious to get it on the water, will be fun finding it lower limits. Ran at it a few times trying to slack the lines,power went away but it drifted back fast enough that I could not get them slack, it remains really stable though which was encouraging. :thumb:

29BCD865-D17E-4556-BE07-14449BBDF3DF.jpegF7886E82-B588-4277-B120-EAF2AB5C177D.jpeg8838A6DC-BC7B-4C4B-AC75-9D2FDD1B0D83.jpeg949D696A-4061-4A86-963C-C3958DF38483.jpegBE0FA460-1114-47CD-BBE5-2F5564FE1F6A.jpeg
Keep us posted on your search of finding the limits of freeride low end. I'm very tempting to buy the 13m as well just if it works in 4 knots -luls and 6 max I'm curious how it will work in 30m lines.
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jumptheshark
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:29 pm

Hey Geron,

Only new Peak4 riders will find their ideal range small. Once you get used to them their sweet spot is similar to equally powered LEI kites.

Kite range for foiling is massive in general. An expert can make a broad range of kite size “work” safely but the FUN zone for free riding in swell is way smaller. Goes for all kites, as does the he inverse relationship between size and range. Peaks are pretty much always the smallest kites on the water so their safe range is actually massive.

Once spoiled by too many days foiling swell in a kites (especially a Peak’s) sweet spot you lose all patients for being overpowered and a bigger quiver just happens!
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:19 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:06 pm
I think a lot of that is based on rationalizing not having a 5m. Like Peter said, once you get used to it you will appreciate having it, and there will definitely be many days where it is far and away the better choice. There are quite a few factors that go into choosing a peak size. Many days I "could" ride on either of two or even three sizes but there is definitely a "right" one. With time you get pretty good at figuring which one that is. Forecast, gustiness, rain, swell, directions, and sometimes just how you want to ride can all make one size the better call. The 5m is truly GOLD. It's no 4m, but it outshines the 6 by a country mile. The wear and tear issue is also a key one. These kites flap...... How many tattered flags have you seen flapping in the wind. Minimizing it should be every Peak riders priority, and doing this can severely limit the riding if your overpowered. Spreading the hours over more sizes while also drastically reducing time spent flapping needlessly will be essential for longevity. Done right, these kites should outlast tube kites pound for pound, but done wrong, you could likely shred one in no time. There are a lot of funny contradictions to these kites that might not make sense to those looking into Peaks. They have huge yet small range, they are super safe, yet "don't" relaunch, they are gutless, yet powerful for their size and they are so simple anyone can fly them, but it takes practice and some skill to make them truly shine.

If you want to get the most differentiation out of your Peaks, I suggest you rig them on successively shorter lines as they get smaller. It helps loads with eliminating flapping, massively extends the top end comfort, and helps heaps with deliberating which one is the right size for any given situation. I suggest you keep your 6m on 21m lines for max low end, but suggest you run the 5m on something like 17m lines for a very logical and comfortable step in range.

I am the same weight as Peter, but my ranges skew high compared to him due to shorter lines.
It's not based so much on rationalizing not having a 5m ... it's based on my personal experience this summer where the wind was very consistently lighter than usual. From May to the beginning of September practically all my sessions were on the 6m with the wind in the 10 - 15 knot range. Typically, I would go out as soon as the wind hit 10 knots & it would usually build a bit from there. I would say at 12 - 13 knots I would rather be on the 6m, at 14 - 15 knots I would prefer to be on a 5m ... but often it would only stay at 14 - 15 knots for a half hour or so - not enough time to justify coming in to switch kites even if I had the 5m. What was missing was the 14 knots to 18 knot days that we would get in an average summer (not to mention the 20 -25 knot days :( )

One of the 2 local spots that I kite typically has side shore winds. Using the Peaks has made launching on this narrow & somewhat wind shadowed stretch of beach easy.
Secret Spot copy.jpg
Lake Ontario.jpg
Typically, I ride upwind for 3 or 4 kilometres & then ride the swell back downwind. Better that I get overpowered at some point than risk being underpowered as the only possible put in upwind looks like this, which even with modest swell is an absolute bitch with a foil (I've had to do it a couple of times).

Since the start of September the fall winds have started to kick in ... which means more days on the 4m, but also moderate days when the 5m might be just the ticket. Also planning on spending a couple months in the DR this winter, where I would expect to get plenty of use out of the 5m. I'm also a fan of your idea of reducing wear by spreading use between more kites. :thumb:

Today was the second day in a row with 20 - 25 knot winds - too much for the 4m Peak, so the second day using the Boxer 3.5m. The line lengths were better set up today & I got more dialled in on the kite, which is very fast, very twitchy & still inclined to backstall. It requires a LOT of attention to positioning & sheeting to keep the power where you want. Seems much more demanding to use than the Peak 4m ... although it does have the advantage of being easy to water relaunch when you stuff it in the water. I think it was easier when the wind was 25 knots + & much tricker in the lulls. Like all conventional LEI's the power in the Boxer is much less "locked in" feeling than the Peaks. Obviously it "drifts" OK, but it doesn't hang in the air the same way that a Peak does. I'm going to have to decide whether to replace it with a 3m Peak. :-?

Also need to get some shorter flying lines - the 4m Peak & the 3.5m Boxer seem a long way away using 20m flying lines. My plan is to get 14m lines for the 4m Peak & add 3m extensions for the 5m.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:12 pm

Um, you can definitely rationalize how you view your personal experience. I think I do it all the time.... with pretty much everything!

Trust me, you will enjoy having more Peaks, and I absolutely empathize with the experience of switching to a small LEI after much time spent on Peaks. Had a 3.5m Solo before getting a 3m Peak. Enjoyed the silky smooth top end in steady wind, but eventually it was the gusty less than ideal conditions that got be fed up with it.

Had a dream conditions 5m session yesterday. SW, right down the pipe with nice swell and steady wind, sun and a dramatic fall sky. Rode my legs off! Would have been half the experience on either the 6 or the 4.

There is something about perfect 5m conditions. So easy and stress free that is somehow feels a bit like cheating. Kite is so light in hand, yet the pace is a bit slower than 4m, so all the carves, transitions and airs are a bit more scripted. Makes for a really nice flow to the riding.
Last edited by jumptheshark on Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby lezo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:29 pm

About wind range: I find that the ideal ranges posted here are narrower than in my experience. Maybe they are valid for foiling there and back on the same path, but I used to either push hard upwind first and than carve downwind on the swell, practically no flapping in either case, well over the here discussed upper limits. I also like to have a bit to much power than not enough. So the 8m Peak4 gave me some really nice swell surfing sessions from 8kts to 15kts. I use the 5m from 12kts to about 20kts. Just bought a 3m for above 22kts sessions. Finally, I used my 13m a couple of times this summer for very low-wind flat water foiling, still have to find the real low end, not easy to establish precisely. With my previous Sonic2 15m it was 6kts, the Peak4 13m is much less risky in the 5-6kts range so I think that I was going below 5tks in lulls without risking the kite fall out of the sky. But this extremely powerful kite gets hard to hold over 10-12kts, its flapping and deforming, maybe I still have to find the right way to pilot.
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:33 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:12 pm
Um, you can definitely rationalize how you view your personal experience. I think I do it all the time.... with pretty much everything!

Trust me, you will enjoy having more Peaks, and I absolutely empathize with the experience of switching to a small LEI after much time spent on Peaks. Had a 3.5m Solo before getting a 3m Peak. Enjoyed the silky smooth top end in steady wind, but eventually it was the gusty less than ideal conditions that got be fed up with it.

Had a dream conditions 5m session yesterday. SW, right down the pipe with nice swell and steady wind, sun and a dramatic fall sky. Rode my legs off! Would have been half the experience on either the 6 or the 4.

There is something about perfect 5m conditions. So easy and stress free that is somehow feels a bit like cheating. Kite is so light in hand, yet the pace is a bit slower than 4m, so all the carves, transitions and airs are a bit more scripted. Makes for a really nice flow to the riding.
The important step is the realization that Foiling is the Future. The last 2 years I have been foiling perhaps 90% of the time. As my skills in foiling have developed, the appeal of the SB has gradually diminished. A very average day on the foil is more curvelicious than anything but the very best conditions on a SB. So the foiling quiver becomes more important than the SB quiver.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:41 pm

Ideal range has yet to be well defined. For sure, above ideal, the lines get much more up and then back down wind.

For me, the low end of the sweet spot is when I can get up and foiling without any particular effort. One dive or loop and straight up to foiling with easy upwind.

The top end of the sweet spot is a little less defined, but as soon as I cant carve a hard bottom turn and get right up to a top turn without feeling the downwind pull of the kite, that's about it. In other words. I'm super spoiled by having each size and as soon as my lines are compromised by too much power, I prefer to be on a smaller kite that will allow me to carve toe side back up through the eye of the wind.

Your mileage may vary.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:28 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:41 pm
Ideal range has yet to be well defined. For sure, above ideal, the lines get much more up and then back down wind.

For me, the low end of the sweet spot is when I can get up and foiling without any particular effort. One dive or loop and straight up to foiling with easy upwind.

The top end of the sweet spot is a little less defined, but as soon as I cant carve a hard bottom turn and get right up to a top turn without feeling the downwind pull of the kite, that's about it. In other words. I'm super spoiled by having each size and as soon as my lines are compromised by too much power, I prefer to be on a smaller kite that will allow me to carve toe side back up through the eye of the wind.

Your mileage may vary.
My preference is also not to be too powered up. However, in practice it's always not realistic to come back in & set up a new kite when the wind picks up or drops a bit. Switching kites involves self landing, packing away & setting up & self launching another kite - all of which takes a considerable time ... when I am a long way upwind of my launch spot, it's not even worth considering. And then there's the ever-present possibility that the increase/decrease in wind will be temporary. :-?

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Foil_Adict » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:53 pm

5772524E-FC32-4815-8FE2-7F4E205EBF28.png
First day on the water with the 13m. Not ideal conditions, straight onshore 5-10mph. Impressed by how much pull this kite has in the lightest of winds. Even more impressed by how stable this sky tractor is in such light wind. No surprise, this is a very slow kite, transitions are tough to time. Honestly think the 11 and 13m kites should have a different name to set expectations. But I had a really fun time riding in super low wind today. Looking forward to the first side shore lightwind day. Thinking will be more possible to ride the wave a bit more. The 13m still drifts, just not as care free as the smaller sizes. Actually collapsed the kite in a drawn out jibe during a lull. Not fun to swim in but not terrible. Fixed the lines and went back out. Once I figure out the super delayed timing I think this kite can save some low wind sessions.


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