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New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

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foilholio
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby foilholio » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:46 am

If it is really as easy as 30mins to design a better bridle then it is hard to believe that these kite companies would not invest that short amount of time to adopted such a bridle. The fact such a "better" bridle isn't used suggest to me that it is not better and must have some serious draw backs. I would think if you were more of an expert than the expert you claim you might guess what the draw backs could be. Looking out side a singular scope may help. Like there is more than one style of kiteboarding, there would be more to making and selling kites than just designing the highest performance. Otherwise we would be all using solid carbon wings.
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windmaker (Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:45 pm)
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kitexpert
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:17 am

foilholio wrote: If it is really as easy as 30mins to design a better bridle then it is hard to believe that these kite companies would not invest that short amount of time to adopted such a bridle. The fact such a "better" bridle isn't used suggest to me that it is not better and must have some serious draw backs. I would think if you were more of an expert than the expert you claim you might guess what the draw backs could be. Looking out side a singular scope may help. Like there is more than one style of kiteboarding, there would be more to making and selling kites than just designing the highest performance. Otherwise we would be all using solid carbon wings.
This bridle issue is of course only a part of a foil kite design. It seems that many kite companies/designers just don't care, or they don't know/can't do it better or they don't have time/interest to study how it could be done better. And after all it is true that effect to kite flight properties is usually not big (as far as bridle does its basic function properly) between very good and mediocre bridle design. In race kites this kind of optimizations are more important.

However even small advantage is still an advantage and also usability (service, untangling) for cleaner bridle is better. Better design also saves some line costs and manufacturing labor.

I've redesigned so many bridles that there are no question about if they are better. Biggest improvement was perhaps big Psycho2 which was so slow looping it without hitting ground was a challenge. After redesign it was usable kite, looped easily. I used to call it P2.5 and used it for years on :) It was a complete redesign, one of the reasons was to get rid of that horrible shrinking 4m long pulley line in the wingtips. Line saving was perhaps 30-40%, so also line drag was cut considerably.

At that point my biggest respect to (foil) kite designers was gone, even though I still appreciate a lot that work some of them do. Some not so much...

The bridle I represented has no drawbacks, there is nothing new in it. It has 2/3 of the original tertiary bridle so these lines are more stressed but it is no problem for strength. Cascading three secondary levels instead of two causes a bit more span wise compression but it is not a problem either. Slightly lower drag will make kite fly a bit further in the WW but for sure we are not seeking stability by increasing the drag for a kite that should compete Soul :)

Bridle spacing and bridle line row count are much more fundamental design parameters than how cascading etc. is done. Bridle spacing links closely to cell count and AR, which are two most defining things for any foil kite. Metaphorically bridle, ribs, D-ribs and span wise straps are the skeleton of the kite, upper and lower skins are the meat on them.

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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby windmaker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:45 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:46 am
If it is really as easy as 30mins to design a better bridle then it is hard to believe that these kite companies would not invest that short amount of time to adopted such a bridle. The fact such a "better" bridle isn't used suggest to me that it is not better and must have some serious draw backs. I would think if you were more of an expert than the expert you claim you might guess what the draw backs could be. Looking out side a singular scope may help. Like there is more than one style of kiteboarding, there would be more to making and selling kites than just designing the highest performance. Otherwise we would be all using solid carbon wings.
:thumb: From what I know designing the Halo was an 18 month project with several prototypes built before the final version so hard to believe that no time was spent designing the bridle. If there was an optimum bridle design I guess everybody would be using that and nothing else.

Halo was designed to compete with Soul and Hyperlink. It should be hitting the market as we speak so feed back from real customers will soon be available. I have had 2 sessions with the 8m and 1 on the 12m and am super excited but reserve my opinion as I haven't flown a Hyperlink or Soul since last summer.

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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:49 pm

Of course I don't do my drawings from the scratch. I have dozens different designs covering most cell counts, bridle configurations, AR's etc, of course including these what Halo now uses.

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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby windmaker » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:19 pm


ronniejamesgio
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby ronniejamesgio » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:24 pm

Since I have not heard much about this kite except negative reviews by people who havent really seen or tried the kite, I'm going to put my 2 cents in, after flying the Halo now around three times or so;)

And also, does anyone know why F-one does not seem to care in promoting this kite? Except that one lonely video on their site...

Anyways, up to this moment I've tried two 10m and and one 12m Halo and I really am impressed. As a kiter who's mostly flying a Flysurfer Soul 12m I really liked the Halo, especially the 10m. I have tried both the 8 & 10m Souls and they both seem to stand far behind the Halo. The Halo has a really impressive turning speed, almost no bar pressure except when jumping and is as impulsive as a softkite can get.
Admittedly the Soul is easier to launch since it fills up quicker, but that's also due to my lazyness to prefill the Halo properly. Both the Soul 12 and Halo 12 are quite similar in behaviour, though as a general attribute the Halo is way more impulsive and develops its power out of little steering manoeuvres, whereas the Soul 12 has an even power development. These things are all to personal taste, thus I really prefer the reactivity and quickness of the Halo.

Here's a little low quality video of me trying the Halo in 10 metres:


I have tried several softkites and I'd advise everyone of you to give this one a try, it's truly an enrichment to the market!

tkaraszewski
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby tkaraszewski » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:33 am

ronniejamesgio wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:24 pm
Since I have not heard much about this kite except negative reviews by people who havent really seen or tried the kite, I'm going to put my 2 cents in, after flying the Halo now around three times or so;)

And also, does anyone know why F-one does not seem to care in promoting this kite? Except that one lonely video on their site...

Anyways, up to this moment I've tried two 10m and and one 12m Halo and I really am impressed. As a kiter who's mostly flying a Flysurfer Soul 12m I really liked the Halo, especially the 10m. I have tried both the 8 & 10m Souls and they both seem to stand far behind the Halo. The Halo has a really impressive turning speed, almost no bar pressure except when jumping and is as impulsive as a softkite can get.
Admittedly the Soul is easier to launch since it fills up quicker, but that's also due to my lazyness to prefill the Halo properly. Both the Soul 12 and Halo 12 are quite similar in behaviour, though as a general attribute the Halo is way more impulsive and develops its power out of little steering manoeuvres, whereas the Soul 12 has an even power development. These things are all to personal taste, thus I really prefer the reactivity and quickness of the Halo.

Here's a little low quality video of me trying the Halo in 10 metres:


I have tried several softkites and I'd advise everyone of you to give this one a try, it's truly an enrichment to the market!
Thank you! Been waiting for someone to comment on this kite who’s actually ridden it!

tkaraszewski
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby tkaraszewski » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:21 pm

I got a chance to fly this kite yesterday, in the 10m size on 15m lines. I was riding a Moses T38 hydrofoil board on a 91cm mast and a 683/483 wingset.

This is the track I recorded:
Image

This was the wind for the day, the above track was recorded from approximately 2:00-2:30PM, so about 10-15 knots of wind. Thew weather station is right next to the launch/landing point on the above track.
Image

I am not a foil kite expert, but I've flown a few of them now. I found the Halo to sit slightly forward from where my 10m Soul sits (note that my Soul is also flying on 21m lines compared to this Halo on 15m lines). It feels slightly "racier" and a bit more like the 9m R1 I've flown in the past. Down loop speed seems similar to my Soul. It seemed to have slightly less of a grunty pull through the loop when you sheet out than the Soul does, which makes for smoother gybes. It seemed floatier as you brought it through the zenith, which should give more times for foot switches, though I found the timing odd, and combined with how far forward it sits, it was easy to feel like you we're going to outrun it as you gybed with it overhead. I think you'd get used to this quickly if you flew it often, though.

I don't know if I could have matched the same upwind angles that I recorded above on my 10m Soul, it seemed to go upwind quite well. It seemed to want to float "upwards" a bit while going upwind, and you needed pressure on the front hand to keep it level, whereas my Soul feels more neutral in this regard. However, going downwind, the kite seemed to float more neutrally, whereas my Soul sometimes likes to drop and you need pressure on the back hand here to keep it flying level.

I found the kite overall fairly similar feeling to the Soul, but that it liked to sit a bit farther forward in the window a bit like a race kite. The transition from the Soul to Halo was not difficult though, and I think that if you liked one, you would probably also like the other. Which one you like more might depend on personal preference.

I did not drop the Halo, so can't comment on relaunch. I like the F-one bar better than the Flysurfer bar, but I have not tried the brand new Flysurfer bar.
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windmaker (Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:37 am)
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby windmaker » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:39 am

Completely agree with the above post, I have been riding the Halo (8&12m) for nearly 2 months it really is a Soul ++.

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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:20 am

Hello,
I just bough a Halo 8m, and wanted to share my excitement ; for Hydrofoil free-ride / transitions and snow kite (below my Pulsion 12m for lower winds);
Test in 3 weeks after my recovery from surgery act


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