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Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

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FLandOBX
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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby FLandOBX » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:09 pm

Kitegirls, if the information in your first paragraph is complete, the reason they haven't shut down the area might be that the government entities aren't aware that people are getting terribly sick from exposure to the water. Even though they know all about the pollution and contamination, if they don't know that you and your friends have contracted "a long list of infections and disease" from being in the water, and that you and your friend "have nearly died from the infection", they probably will do what governments usually do......nothing. Once they know people are actually getting sick, they may take action.

I agree with you that forcing a closure of the area could be for the best. As you've said, once they start losing money, they may get serious about cleaning up the problem. Hit them in the pocket book. It usually gives them a wake-up call. Good luck and keep us posted. :thumb:

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby k2thiago » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:45 am

I would first contact a university and raise the question. They could in a couple of weeks take some samples and create a numerical model of the local water circulation (if that haven't been done yet, what is unlikely) then a dispersion/ decay model for the pathogenic material. There is a lot of academic interest in that type of issue... With the backup of a university, plus the local samples you would have a solid scientific support to demand an action from the local authorities.
You can also bring the matter first to the media (with the support of local organizations also) before start the court fight, I believe that would help a lot.
You can contact the department of Oceanography at UH to see if they can provide you the contact of someone that works specifically with polution/microbiology:
tel: (808) 956-7633 • fax: (808) 956-9225
uhmocean@hawaii.edu
Or the department of physical oceanography and ask the contact of a coastal dynamics/ numerical modeling specialist:
Physical Oceanography at UH:
tel: (808) 956-6062 • fax: (808) 956-9165
email: lsamura@soest.hawaii.edu
I hope that helps!
Good luck.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby elguapo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:08 pm

i love maui.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby NYKiter » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:32 pm

As an international tourist destination, this is completely unacceptable.

If the drinking water supply is anything like Oahu, when I lived there it was a freshwater lens that floated on top of the salt water aquifer beneath (besides the mountain dikes that catch water). Once the lens is breach its game over...a few years ago some defense company wanted to inject heavy metals into deep injection wells on Oahu....cant cure stupid.....no idea what impact these injection wells have on the drinking water in Maui...

Good for you for getting 'emotional' about it and raising awareness....

:shout: :clap: :clap:

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby fernmanus » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:41 pm

Kitegirl, you are making a big assumption. You are assuming that because the wastewater treatment is old and nearby that it is the cause of the contaminated water. How can you be so sure? Unless, you test the water that is being released from the plant, you cannot be sure. I doubt it is the treatment plant, wastewater treatment plants frequently test their outflow. It is more likely another source that is causing the problem.

Here is a short list of other sources of contamination:
Sewage backup due to excess rain
Illegal dumping of sewage into local river that flows into the ocean
Septic overflow into river or streams
Illegal dumping of sewage into storm drains that lead to the ocean
Sewage overflow due to increased usage.

The problem can be anywhere upstream from Kanaha. It could be as close as the airport or more distant.

It is true that there have been some serious staph infections on Maui recently. My step brother was hospitalized for a few days after scraping his foot on the reef.

It is also possible that the Staph infections are Not due to a contamination issue, but another biological issue. You need more info before you go on the attack.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby fernmanus » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:54 pm

One more comment: you have every right to call the wastewater treatment plant and ask to speak with a representative in person. I think you would be surprised to find out the information that they will share if you are polite and non-accusatory. You might find that they care about the quality of the water just as much as you do.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitelife » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:31 pm

Hawaii needs to get their shit together, literally...

Looks like there’s already a lawsuit for injection type treatment plants at the federal level (because of the one in Lahaina).

https://www.hpr2.org/post/maui-wastewat ... reme-court

Sounds like a typical infrastructure problem - more people, outdated and deteriorated facility, no budget.

It will take years (decades) before you see anything done

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby pmaggie » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:25 am

KiteGirl, the point is not to leave the water polluted and live happy with it. The point is that on our lake there are few spots and, as Fland wrote, the local authorities in case of serious pollution have one choice only: to close the spot. Then, the Mayor of the city has to find a lot of money to build a new and more efficient water depuration plant (it can take years, from the moment they find the money of course, that is not tomorrow morning). As a result, the spot will simply be closed forever.
It is not a good thing to swim in polluted water, but since the choice is between kiting in polluted water and not kiting at all, personally I prefer the first solution. Fortunately, our lake is very clean due to the fact that there are two rivers coming in from the mountains, but we too sometimes have problems with defective depuration plants.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby Matteo V » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:39 pm

pmaggie wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:25 am
KiteGirl, the point is not to leave the water polluted and live happy with it. The point is that on our lake there are few spots and, as Fland wrote, the local authorities in case of serious pollution have one choice only: to close the spot. Then, the Mayor of the city has to find a lot of money to build a new and more efficient water depuration plant (it can take years, from the moment they find the money of course, that is not tomorrow morning). As a result, the spot will simply be closed forever.
It is not a good thing to swim in polluted water, but since the choice is between kiting in polluted water and not kiting at all, personally I prefer the first solution. Fortunately, our lake is very clean due to the fact that there are two rivers coming in from the mountains, but we too sometimes have problems with defective depuration plants.
You are missing the point that kitegirls is trying to make. She want's to reduce the chance of a bacterial infection from ocean water at Kanaha to ZERO. And there are a few methods for working towards that.

1. Depopulate Maui to zero permanent residents and all visitors must take all human waste with them to be disposed elsewhere.
2. Require all visiting water users to wear sealed suits so that humans have no direct contact with the water.
3. Dump chlorine into the use area to ensure that most bacteria is eliminated from other sources, as well as from any accidental human contact.
4. Build an ozone generation plant to purify the water by filtration/ozonation at the beach so that naturally and "newly resistant" strains of bacteria that survives the chlorine, are also eliminated.
5. No children under 16 should be allowed to enter the water, suit or not, as they are a potential contamination hazard.
6. No children in diapers should be allowed on the island, period.

Also, I would suggest suing the state/county for 100million dollars, then donating that back to them to fix the sewage treatment plant. Then sue them again for another 100million dollars, donate that back to them so that they actually have enough money to fix the problem. - Sorry for the AOC math, and not trying to get political - stupid is just stupid no matter what side you are on.


And take a few biology courses. You may learn some interesting things about the amount of contaminants in even the air, or even inside of certain parts of the human body, that could make you worry less about seawater. Or possibly, more.


Then make sure you eat health food (not the kind that is actually more contaminated with bacteria than regular food), live to the ripe old age of 98, so that you can be lying in a rest home not knowing what you are dying of.


I will die sometime sooner, but absolutely aware of what is killing me - it will be the price of enjoying life and taking risks.


I am not saying that nothing should be done, but don't ruin it for everyone else. Most children learn that rule of life by 5years old or so. But a few seem to never grasp that concept, even into adulthood.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby Pemba » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:35 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:39 pm
pmaggie wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:25 am
KiteGirl, the point is not to leave the water polluted and live happy with it. The point is that on our lake there are few spots and, as Fland wrote, the local authorities in case of serious pollution have one choice only: to close the spot. Then, the Mayor of the city has to find a lot of money to build a new and more efficient water depuration plant (it can take years, from the moment they find the money of course, that is not tomorrow morning). As a result, the spot will simply be closed forever.
It is not a good thing to swim in polluted water, but since the choice is between kiting in polluted water and not kiting at all, personally I prefer the first solution. Fortunately, our lake is very clean due to the fact that there are two rivers coming in from the mountains, but we too sometimes have problems with defective depuration plants.
You are missing the point that kitegirls is trying to make. She want's to reduce the chance of a bacterial infection from ocean water at Kanaha to ZERO.

Where did you read that ?? I think she refers to EPA standards, I doubt that those aim to reduce chance of a bacterial infection to ZERO.


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