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Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

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elguapo
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby elguapo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:54 am

foilholio wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:47 pm
The water relaunch issues are concerning as is the weight. I guess the weight could be improved with lighter fabric. The price is too much. They use smaller vents unlike the FS proto, which should reduce water getting it, but from the test it still gets in... The zip is small which is good, but the placement on the bottom skin doesn't work well at all. The shape of the LE is more aerodynamic than the FS proto, so Armins concerns on this should be mute. The wind ranges are highly likely BS. Looking like a lot of hype.

My other idea is a kite with the last 1/3 as a single skin, to potentially improve weight,balance, stability and drift.
elguapo wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:39 pm
now if someone could just make a compact foil splitboard i'll be all set.
Pocket boards not small enough?
i have not found a pocket board that fits in a standard (120L) luggage...yet.
(american airlines appears to be actively targeting "golf bags" for the the surfboard fees again)

nobile's infinity split board fits... but i can only ride it without footstraps and with shimming the rear wing.

a split pocketboard might even fit in a standard backpack.
(#drool)
Last edited by elguapo on Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

slowboat
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby slowboat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:13 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:24 pm
We had the chance to test it in south france here in 4m and 6m in 11-12 knots, in french sorry :
http://www.lesfoilz.com/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 8&start=30

Kite is powerfull, stable , however water relaunches were not that easy and not all successful ( but maybe due to some prototype feature of the demo kite) ;

Looking at GIN promoting video, I feel the kite profil seems a bit irregular along the chord (maybe due to a lack of support briddle?), which we do not see on the Shaman or peak , and which could affect its glide ratio ( I encountered the same when I modified a DIY speed2 into a single skin); lets hope is it only visual;

About the "game changer" thing in light winds, I am a bit disappointed by the final weight (which should be IMO the main advantage/target of single skins) since it is not lighter than a double skin 12m CA Pulsion, with certainly less glide in the air , less rigidity in no-wind lulls, and less chanve to relaunch after a short lull ; 12m is also to me a bit too little for marginal wind (even for my 60 kg anbd large HF); So I pray to get from Gin a "Marginal-Marabou" , say around 16m2 and in light cloth to target 1.3 kg ...

... Gin, if you here me and look for a beta tester ...
HELLO GIN, if you are reading, please send Regis a couple of kites. He has a lot of credibility on this forum and has the skills and knowledge to test your kite properly.

elguapo
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby elguapo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:35 am

fyi, this kite was released yesterday..
no reason to wait until mid may...if anyone else wanted to test
(there is a 30 day money back guarantee it appears)

https://www.ginkites.com/shop/marabou/

edit: kite will actually ship in mid may
:-/
Last edited by elguapo on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby mgs » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:46 am

Nice concept.
With reference to the closed cell LE.
Does anyone remember Windtools Mosquito Pro KS?
I had the land based version.
The KS version had small bladders inserted into the LE.
I’m not suggesting this is the way to go as you might as well consider the alternative.
Last edited by mgs on Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby jatem » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:33 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:24 pm
We had the chance to test it in south france here in 4m and 6m in 11-12 knots, in french sorry :
http://www.lesfoilz.com/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 8&start=30
Regis, any chance you could translate the following comments? Google translate isn't making it easy to understand. I'm interested to hear how it handles compared to the peak 4. I have been thinking I'd get an 8m peak4 for light days, but the marabou looks interesting. The relaunch has been a non-issue for me with the peaks, as they don't stall out of the sky in the way a LEI will.

La Marabou semble moins technique que la Peak, plus facile au pilotage, elle sur-borde moins et il est donc plus facile de garder de la puissance le temps du loop pour sortir de l’eau.
La puissance semble être équivalente à ma 8.5 mais avec un peu moins de couple.
Le depower est efficace mais on garde toujours un fond de puissance contrairement à la Peak ou mes Wave qui coupent “complètement” le boost.

Dans sa plage vraiment basse, on peut jouer avec les trains de houles, l’aile recule sans broncher mais reste technique. Ce côté technique est un atout pour jouer/piloter mais peut devenir un problème pour un débutant foileur (mon avis).
Dans les rafales (17/18nds?), l’aile se charge et on a tendance à être tirer sous le vent (manque de bord de fenêtre) mais c’est aussi ce qui lui donne cette stabilité et puissance dans les autres phases.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby slowboat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:14 am

Any comments about turning speed on the French forum?

elguapo
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby elguapo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:48 pm

slowboat wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:14 am
Any comments about turning speed on the French forum?
http://www.lesfoilz.com/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 8&start=30
via DeepL:
Sorry for the delay but bcp of work when I came back last night and today to make up for my absence yesterday.
So here is my return;)

First of all thanks to David the salesman from Gin, a very nice and available character who did a real marathon to come to Fos to present us a preview of a series of protos in 3 sizes 4/6/12.

On the beach, unpacking of the wings (so protos to see the differences with the production):
Nice finish, a 10cm mini zip for deflation with a mini sock to facilitate manoeuvring.
Friction rings instead of pulleys and a clamping that could be thinner to avoid flange/ring snagging (this happens on the Peak and will happen during the Marabou test).
The decoration/colour is beautiful and enhances the wing!


On the water (Foil test 1200 strapless, me 73kg).
The readings give an average of 11/12kt.
Very easy to set up and take off.
the wing is very stable at its zenith (4m² or 6m²).
The Marabou seems less technical than the Peak, easier to drive, it overhangs less and it is therefore easier to keep power during the loop to get out of the water.
The power seems to be equivalent to my 8.5 but with a little less torque.
The depower is effective but we always keep a background of power unlike the Peak or my Wave which "completely" cuts the boost.

In its really low range, you can play with the swell trains, the wing moves back without flinching but remains technical. This technical side is an asset to play/pilot but can become a problem for a beginner foileur (my opinion).
In gusts (17/18kt?), the wing loads and you tend to be pulled downwind (lack of window edge) but that's also what gives it this stability and power in the other phases.

The relaunch:).
Launching of the 4 to test...... she made a papillote and took the water, back to the beach (ear tips too small on the proto).

David's remark: On standard sails, the trailing edge of the closed wingtip boxes is equipped with a water evacuation velcro that opens with light water pressure and closes when the sail has no water. A small mesh fabric allows the last drops of water to escape when the sail is in the air.

The 6, launched on a waterfall, was on its leading edge, I turned it over easily with the AR (measure the tension), it was well positioned sitting on its trailing edge, but impossible to take it off again (the leading edge in good shape!).
Back to the beach, swimming, David tries to get her back in shape on the sand, impossible!??? In fact, a small branch was on the left side of the bridle and was making keys.
David's back in the water, for a convincing takeoff test.


In conclusion, I found the wing to be successful, easy and interesting to fly. The test confirms what I saw at Carro (Wave 8.5 VS Peak 5), in the margin, at the bottom there is a way to have fun, where my 8.5 Wave 1.4kg is struggling, the small Mono-peaux express themselves.

Yesterday a PU 8S or 9 would have put a correction in heading and speed at Marabou 6 (or 9?) but in the small swell and so little wind the single skins seem to me to be the queens to have fun.

Still to confirm the redecoration, for that I asked David for a test wing for the South

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:01 pm

Thanks for the translation, i am a bit short in time this week. I can re-translate one or two sentences if automatic translation is not clear

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby kitexpert » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:40 pm

This is interesting kite but like with all hybrids there is a fine line if they are a combination of good or bad properties of different kite types.

In general I like how Marabou is designed. Idea itself is not a new but congrats to Gin to be able to deliver first production kite of this type. Single skin part of the kite is not at all smooth but it is a challenge for that kind of kite.

I have several hybrid designs completed, including ones with ram air struts. They help to keep canopy cleaner and also make normal sized vents possible.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby foilholio » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:59 pm

Flysurfer has a good design ethic not to release a product they deem not ready.

I was thinking, if the Peak simply closed its tip cells, would that be enough of an improvement to relaunch? The tips are long enough for a long sock, which would reduce water ingress. I think watching Horgio's vid that relaunching is greatly affected by water in the tips.

They don't need to use a full size intake either. A quite small one should work. Say with the sock on one cell wall. It would be easy enough to modify a Peak 4 to test it.


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