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Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

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Flyboy
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Flyboy » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:12 pm

tilmann wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:14 pm
What are "average conditions" ? In shallow waddenseas like the North Sea "average conditions" means: tons of perfect speed spots at any time. You can have endless fun here (speed, high speed carving) If you have the right board.
Where do YOU live, Flyboy ?
Where I live there are no nearby flat water spots ... however, I have windsurfed & kited at many different locations. I have been going to Cape Hatteras for 35 years. Back in the windsurfing days I would go as fast as I could in Pamlico Sound - I even had a speed needle that I used to ride. It was fun. Now I don't have much interest in riding as fast as I can ... on a kiteboard, even in very flat water. And I don't see that it is much of an interest for most kiteboarders in Hatteras. Boosting or freestyle in the slicks, yes. My interest is riding oceanside in the waves wherever possible.

This is not to say that kiting fast isn't a thing for specialists such as yourself, but I don't see many ... actually, ANY kiters that I know doing it. Even foiling, which started as more of a speed/racing oriented thing has become much more focused on slower foils for carving & wave riding.

As far as the OP is concerned, the answer to the question do windsurfers, on average, in average choppy conditions, go faster than kitesurfers ... is yes ... assuming that the windsurfer is adequately powered. However, overall kitesurfers are able to maintain a much more consistent speed due to the ability to create additional apparent wind. Windsurfing fast in average conditions is (IMO) relatively more fun on a windsurfer than a kiteboard. Which is more fun or faster in speed specific conditions is a different question, which I can't answer, as I've never ridden a kite speed board in flat water.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:49 am

the problem for windsurfers is: they need deep water for their long fins. And deep water means: choppy water most of the time. A kiter has more freedom. He can ride wherever he wants. Even in 2 inch of water. Often you get BOTH conditions at the SAME spot: deep water (for windsurfers and kiters) and only a few meters aside shallow water near the beach (for kiters only) And as I said before: shallow water means a lot of speed and a lot of fun. :thumb:

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:08 am

shallow water fun (windsurfer at 00:25 in the background)
Different conditions at the same spot. The windsurfer however has no access to the fun area :lol:


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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Foil » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:31 pm

all three disciplines have their own days to excel.
windsurfing less days in most locations,
kitesurfing is then next
hydrofoil boards have many more days available to enjoy.

For me the feeling of speed on windsurfer speed boards and fast lightweight slalom boards has been the most satisfying as I have never had much fear about crashing, so the speed buzz is very rewarding, and feels sort of safe. skill takes many years to get up there at very stable high speed, but when your up there it's brilliant.
Twin tips for me is more about the boosting, and trying to keep up with a fast slalom board has often been a lost cause if the salom board has a very experienced fast guy on board and conditions have been choppy, but there are more slower windsurfers than the faster type who know when you are trying to race them.
But then hydrofoiling has been the stand out sport especially when a foil kite is used as well,
finally I have been able to capture that windsurfing race feel which i miss so much, especially upwind, my foil kite on the hydrofoil board just locks in solid, just feels like my old windsurfing race boards, turn off wind and the surge of speed feels similar, only the foil kite powered hydrofoil board just keeps accelerating to eye watering speeds, the difference is the windsurfer had a top speed which is easier to reach, the foils top speed is higher but is harder to control and feels much less sustainable, and takes so much more concentration to maintain, mega long reaches on a slalom board are much easier and leg cramp would only slow you down after many miles,
normal Ttips could not sustain high speed like a windsurfer can, I know that, and I turn upwind when one is hunting me down. and I have a fast Ttip, but still not a match for a good fast slalom board on a typically wind chop sea state.
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Flyboy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:04 pm

Foil wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:31 pm
all three disciplines have their own days to excel.
windsurfing less days in most locations,
kitesurfing is then next
hydrofoil boards have many more days available to enjoy.

For me the feeling of speed on windsurfer speed boards and fast lightweight slalom boards has been the most satisfying as I have never had much fear about crashing, so the speed buzz is very rewarding, and feels sort of safe. skill takes many years to get up there at very stable high speed, but when your up there it's brilliant.
Twin tips for me is more about the boosting, and trying to keep up with a fast slalom board has often been a lost cause if the salom board has a very experienced fast guy on board and conditions have been choppy, but there are more slower windsurfers than the faster type who know when you are trying to race them.
But then hydrofoiling has been the stand out sport especially when a foil kite is used as well,
finally I have been able to capture that windsurfing race feel which i miss so much, especially upwind, my foil kite on the hydrofoil board just locks in solid, just feels like my old windsurfing race boards, turn off wind and the surge of speed feels similar, only the foil kite powered hydrofoil board just keeps accelerating to eye watering speeds, the difference is the windsurfer had a top speed which is easier to reach, the foils top speed is higher but is harder to control and feels much less sustainable, and takes so much more concentration to maintain, mega long reaches on a slalom board are much easier and leg cramp would only slow you down after many miles,
normal Ttips could not sustain high speed like a windsurfer can, I know that, and I turn upwind when one is hunting me down. and I have a fast Ttip, but still not a match for a good fast slalom board on a typically wind chop sea state.
Exactly right. No question that kitesurfing has many advantages over windsurfing, but flying along on a windsurfing slalom board in choppy water, or swell, is a unique feeling. I think one reason is that when windsurfing you feel that the source of power is low down & feels like it is coming from your own body, whereas in kiting the power is way up above you, at the end of those 30m lines. Of course, this is also a big advantage for kiting, giving you more ability to finesse the power. Windsurfing you blast along trying to maximize the power & efficiency through body & rig trim.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:12 pm

Whereas a twintip is the equivalent to a wakeboard, the new powerboard is the equivalent to a waterski. With its straight outline, straight rocker and round rails you can indeed fly over chop - given the chop is not TOO big.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Matteo V » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:00 pm

tilmann wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:12 pm
....With its straight outline, straight rocker and round rails you can indeed fly over chop - given the chop is not TOO big.
All of my speed runs have been in dead flat water without even a ripple. We have a nice walking trail that bisects a lake and is built up about 1m above the waters surface. To stay out of the ripples and in glass, you need to be within about 2m of the rocks on the trail (how far your head is from rocks as you are hiked out). Once you get into the ripples, at least for me, I have noticed about a 1knot reduction even though I feel safer. And just to note, I am not using a purpose built speed board.

So what is your ideal chop height, or acceptable chop height for your speed boards? How would you design a kite speed board differently for glass water conditions?

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:52 pm

In glass water or chop I use the same board. In the following clip you can watch an older version of the powerboard. At 01:56 you can even HEAR (!) the chop because I had mounted a sound recorder on board. Now the latest version is even better in chop as I made rocker and outline almost dead straight (the middle part). But I think even with this board more than 8 inch chop is not fast anymore. Ideal from my experience 0 - 2 inch


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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:00 pm

I think this video is interesting, too as you can watch the speed in the slowly increasing chop (special speedboard for speed only)


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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:09 pm

... and I really love this one (from 2010 and with a soundrecorder, too) where the chop sounds like music :cool2:

PLAY IT LOUD !!! :wink:



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