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Peak 4 vs Pulsion

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kitexpert
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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby kitexpert » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:51 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:53 pm
:duh: Oh no !!! Please not again...
Why not? Don't you want CA kites to get better?
Tony wrote: Can you elaborate?
Bridle is a bit primitive/weird, cell count is not very smart, air intakes are located weirdly, possibly ribs could have some more vents, huge bar lengths for big sizes are recommended by users... Nothing big but several things seem less than optimal.

I presented an improved version of that kite earlier here, It took about half an hour to design :) Of course I don't mean every parameter was included, not at all, it was just a fix to the weird things (for lower weight and drag). For sure Pulsion has a lot of good design in it.

However Pulsion bridle is "primitive" (quite a lot like foil kites had 20 years ago) for a reason: to make kite structure simple, light weight and cheaper to produce. So there is a point there. But to think it is optimized even as such better think again - after seeing CA based race foil kite (LF Elite) I just don't see it very probable. What a mess that bridle was.

Price you pay for a simple design is added drag and less clean look/usability of a kite.

If I could see a line plan of Pulsion it would be easier to tell what could be improved, but apparently that kind of thing is not available :roll: Some fussy pictures is all I've seen so far.

Super light weight fabrics make Pulsion kites for sure very good light wind kites, but they could be even lighter and less draggy with better design.

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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby slowboat » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:30 am

Pulsions are great light wind kites. They fly very well which to me is a reflection of excellent design.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:49 am

... indeed, same feeling as Slowboat, and Pulsions have a l/d ratio (call it drag or performance as you want) similar to speed4 lotus while faaaar more agile in turns , stable and lower aspect ratio.... whatelse (while Flysurfer is not known to simplify designs... and briddles are more articulated as you seem to love for years). and your loved Soul (which is a very good kite for some uses) with its wonderful briddles need more wind and turn slower...

No kitexpert. I think and repeat that you are really on the false argumentation side for month.and months now, despite the opposite but kind advice that several users have given you. No offense here.

And please do not induce that you are "by principle" better designer as Benoit Tremblay is (who "just "designed closed cell kites before flysurfer and F-one several decades ago... kind reminder). And still without having ever tested one single pulsion on the beach, you can still pretend that you would have designed a kite that allows to fly is less wind that the winner in the world on this exercise, like Pulsion is; you can repeat it again, but i will not trust you more, sorry.

Stop talking , act and proof it now, with photos and tests of at least one of your own designs if any real (no theoretical and ideal 3d view again ) please.

Sorry for the disgretion, I will not pollute this topic too much, so this my least reaction on this point , trust everybody understand.

Simplicity is beautiful and sometimes very efficient (and kite is love ... :wink: ).

Régis

kitexpert
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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby kitexpert » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:02 am

Corrections I've suggested can only make kite better. They are not any kind of fundamental things which already must have been well designed in Pulsion because it apparently works so well. But I don't know why even small things could be done better, and in this case there is more than one thing.

I'd like to suggest improvements for any kites but kites like FS Soul and PL Nova are so refined and complete designs I can't do it that easily.

BTW, if you want a light weight foil kite, isn't there UL version of Nova available? Then you can get both: modern design and extremely light weight.

To claim Pulsion has similar L/D than higher aspect kite with more cells and much more refined bridle is very suspicious or plain silly. Testing this in practice should be done on ice or hard snow - not in the water where skills, equipment and rider weight affect too much. I am 95% sure any Speed series kite would beat similar sized Pulsion easily in speed/upwind/boost/hangtime.

Agility in turns becomes a bit suspicous after reading this: "About the bar : i use a 71cm bar (but 65cm is enough)" :o :) That kind of poles were common in 15 to 20 years ago. Normal bar lengths worked well with Speeds, not even old huge Psychos needed that long bars.

I trust everyone understand Pulsion is a very light weight mid AR kite, not less or more. It is a very simple kite so not at all interesting as a design. To use light weight material is quite trivial, it is not at all great achievement in kite design.

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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby Kitedougiefresh » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:38 pm

After reading the comments, I am trying to understand why my friend who has a Peak 4, 5, & 8 and a Pulsion 12 is looking to sell his 12 Pulsion because in his words "Doesn't drift nearly as well as my Peaks".

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:17 am

Pulsion has a better drift than overall double skin foilkites, but for pure surfing, every single skin has a better drift than any double skin, even the dedicated CA Wave. So it is not surprising IMO

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Re: Peak 4 vs Pulsion

Postby tomtom » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:25 am

We discuss only light wind - where Peaks dont shine as much. Of course Peaks drift better - but there is more to kite in light wind than just drift.
Power spike, L/D, relaunchability etc. Peak is excellent mid to strong wind kite.
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