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kite for 7-12 knots?

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Foil
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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Foil » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:08 am

Using a foil kite is certainly not for everyone, it can and will get you into trouble very quickly -
if you don't use it with respect or don't do your homework before sailing away on one,
also just like buying an old LEI the old type of foil kite has the potential to really make you very fed up with the idea of foil kite use,
they really have changed so much over recent years, especially in the last 12 months or so.

Buying old standard cloth foils that stick to the water and fill up quickly, cotton thin like thread bridals that shrink out of spec as soon as you look at them, long thin profiles that collapse in gusty light winds or bowtie into impossible to relaunch shapes, all these older common features were/are horrible qualities that quite rightly might put any normal free rider off every buying a foil kite,
(err that person by the way was me who bought just that type of kite many years ago and swore to never return to foil kites)

But foil kite technology has changed, I did not believe it, why should I? I still see guys getting into bad situations on their foil kites, they all look the same, flying air beds on lots of string.

Then after sailing for months on end with a life long foil kite user who started 30 years ago in buggies, I watched him change from his older chrono 1, to chrono 2 standard cloth, and then last year he bought just one of the new chrono 3 foil kites, but this time went for the ultralight material, after a strong recommendation from good old Gunnar on Flag beach,
I then had to put up with steve then banging on about this new type of foil kite, its so so different, he preached to me to just try it,
why would I ? I thought, I owned two of the best lightwind LEI kites, the new Alpha 10 and 12 single strut kites, super light, and so good in light wind.

But when I was constantly left stranded on the beach watching my sailing buddy ripping around at full speed jumping in winds i couldn't even use to body drag out in, really made me think about my light wind kite choice.

Yes, I have now changed out my light wind kites to these ultra light expensive kites, but the payback has been well worth it, I am now the guy out there boosting in mega light winds on my 15mtr foil,(cant land them just yet, maybe today!)

I am always aware of the downsides, I always carry my pack of mini distress rocket flares down inside my crash jacket, pack a lightweight self rescue bag to stuff the kite into in case of having to self rescue( this folds inside itself and takes up no room down inside my wet suit, made of dayglo orange foil kite cloth,
my crash jacket offers a little buoyancy, and my foil board is not too small, it offers good floatation for self rescue paddle in situations being 130cm and quite thick at 7cm.
But in over 2 months very regular use, nearly every day! I have dropped my kite maybe 2 dozen times, mostly in the first month whilst getting used to the foil kite and its subtle differences to flying an LEI kite. relaunch in my relatively inexperienced hands has been near 100%, only once did i fail to relaunch and that was when I realised the wind had switched off completely and I started looping the kite and heading for the shore, I stopped looping and the kite slowly fell in the water just after i fell in, the kite is so watertight i floated in to waist deep water, then still in shallow water rolled the kite up on the bar in the water after unzipping the deflation hatch and then stuffed it into the bag avoiding getting sticky wet sand all over the large 15mtr kite.

The potential rewards in using the latest ultra light foil kites are there to be enjoyed,
however there is payback, i agree on that point.
is it worth it?
for some most definitely.
but not for everyone.
if your thinking of one then do your homework well.
My belief is you simply just can't go into foil kites on the cheap,the cheap foil kites out there are cheap for good reason.and many of them will only reinforce your negative thoughts about foil kite use.
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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby alowishus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:54 pm

GregK wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:10 am
My recommendation in your quest for a great kite for foiling on those really light wind days would be stick with what you have until you get a chance to try a kite ( probably a 10 or 12m ) with the LE and strut(s) made from Aluula fabric.

I haven't had a chance yet to fly an Aluula kite, but have held a folded-up 10m 3-strut ( Ocean Rodeo Roam ) - definitely lighter than my 8m Boardriding Maui Cloud ( strutless ) kite.

Big improvements in light-wind performance are coming soon.
The Aluula fabric is pretty exciting based on the OR hype and seems almost unbelievable. A single strut kite out of this fabric could turn out to be a foiler's dream :rollgrin:

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:25 pm

deniska wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:37 am
PurdyKiter wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:03 pm
If only I had paid attention to this statement in March when I dug out my CC and plunged into the Soul/Hyperlink hype. OK, I'm sure there's millions who love'em, but after 3 years of light wind sub-10knts and lower foiling with my Clouds.... the Soul just didn't happen for me. I tried the 12m Soul which got me up and riding about like my 10.4 Cloud D, but then was a troubling overpowered finicky beast. And I've had plenty of easy swims with the Cloud, with several boat rescues with a 40 pound soaked mattress pad Soul :(
Will try again this winter in warmer waters and steady tropical winds.
10kts overpowered on 12 soul?
maybe Soul is just not your style..
I rode 15m Soul today in 15kts and was having lots of fun...
Just a comment on this, especially for those a bit "newer" to hydrofoiling:

We are talking about two different ways of riding, PurdyKiter and deniska, requiring very different gear.

When going for max jumps and riding with speed and power, OR being a racer, a 12 m2 is perfect in 15 knots for the first one, and maybe a 15 m2 for the racers.
Particularly foil kites has more windrange than LEIs for this kind of riding, no doubt, better low end better high end :thumb:

Whereas if you (like me) like to carve around, riding waves, and strapless mostly - then a 12 m2 foil kite works fine in 6 to max 8 knots.
But from 8 knots you will be hugely overpowered when looping it around in tight carves or on a small wave, simply too much pull for too long.


For me, I can ride a 12 m2 LEI kite from 7 knots, and NEED a 12 m2 too in this wind, less dont work.
But will be overpowered (meaning NOT in the sweetspot, as still easy to ride) from 8 knots and change to a 10 now.

So I dont think you can find any kite that can cover 7 to 12 knots very well, if you belong to the last "carving" group.
For jumpers it is easy, but as said, two different worlds.

To the OP Eduardo, I am very uncertain about your windrange, as you say there is ONSHORE current???
Very rare to see this anywhere, as if onshore, does it run to the sides when coming to the shore? And if, is there no way you can get out in this water instead, which will result in more wind?
Onshore current with onshore wind, means less wind than 7 to 12 knots, and here you can not ride at all with a LEI in my experience (if only 5-6 knots left).

In general though, a no or onestrut ligher LEI is WAY better in tricky conditions like you got, no doubt.
So yes, practice means a lot, and you can ride both smaller kites and bigger kites, with experience.
But you will really find a huge benefit of a lighter "big" kite, in all aspects :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Eduardo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:25 pm
To the OP Eduardo, I am very uncertain about your windrange, as you say there is ONSHORE current???
Very rare to see this anywhere, as if onshore, does it run to the sides when coming to the shore? And if, is there no way you can get out in this water instead, which will result in more wind?
Onshore current with onshore wind, means less wind than 7 to 12 knots, and here you can not ride at all with a LEI in my experience (if only 5-6 knots left).

In general though, a no or onestrut ligher LEI is WAY better in tricky conditions like you got, no doubt.
So yes, practice means a lot, and you can ride both smaller kites and bigger kites, with experience.
But you will really find a huge benefit of a lighter "big" kite, in all aspects :rollgrin:

8) Peter
maybe current is the wrong word. the wind is straight on-shore as an open ocean sea breeze. there are small waves breaking at the shore (beach break) pushing me back on shore. very hard to get out. no obvious channels going out. maybe all as undertow as the water has to go out somewhere! I did get out eventually and after a foot-switch gone wrong, I was getting ready to water start when the kite dropped in a lull. I think I was just drifting downwind too fast.

It would be great if a 12 no-strut can help get out of the on-shore mess and also to water start when being pushed back on shore and also to not drop in a lull. I prefer to avoid the drop than try to re-launch in this mess.

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:29 pm

Agree, definitely better to keep the kite flying, as even with the light ones you can not relaunch anyways when sub 10 knots, in the "mess", and here these kites are a lot better.

Also, when sub 10 knots dead onshore, you can not really drag out with your current heavier kite, as when the waves push you back, it will either stall, or drop with no chance of rescuing it from the water, unless you downloop fast.
And if you downloop to save, you will get nowhere except dragged to the shore again, so a lose-lose.

You can ride in the same low wind with your current kite yes, but getting out which is essential in these conditions (got the same here often), is the major advantage.
And you can fly the kite at 45 degree when it is light, thus board drag out to deeper water and start.
Not possible with a heavier kite, so you have to keep it high or fly it in figure 8s, thus you dont get out at all, and the risk of hindenburg is huge.

These are the major drawback of too heavy kites in my experience, when sub 10 knots only, otherwise it doesnt matter much :naughty:

8) Peter
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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby RadDrDuke » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:04 am

7-12knts is a tough range, obviously foil kites will be best but you will have to learn how to set them up and fly them etc. The next best option is a new single strut 12m.

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby CARMELHILL » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:07 am

This spring I bought my first foil kite.... a 2018 closeout Ozone HyperlinkV1 12. I absolutely fell in love with it for my twin tip free riding. I'll try foil boarding this fall when the wind is more consistent. But I love that foil, so I ran out and grabbed a 7 meter. I've since sold me LEI 14 Waroo from 2006 that I was patching and fixing. I have a 2017 Cabrinha Switchblade 14 that I am contemplating selling. So here's the problem.......

I had a Waroo 20 from 2006 that was my lightwind go to dream kite. I could fly in light wind all day. I was dreaming the Hyperlink would fly in the same light winds, bit it doesn't. This year the Waroo 20 finally had too many leaks to fix anymore. I'm done with bladders and pumps. No more. Too heavy to travel with. I love the foils, but where do I go now to close that light wind gap? My Hyperlink 12 can get me out into the waves in 11mph at the very least. 12 mph is better.

So what foil kite will fill that need but is still as easy to use as the Hyperlink 12? Move up to a used Chrono V3 15 or 18?

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:18 am

CARMELHILL wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:07 am
This spring I bought my first foil kite.... a 2018 closeout Ozone HyperlinkV1 12. I absolutely fell in love with it for my twin tip free riding. I'll try foil boarding this fall when the wind is more consistent. But I love that foil, so I ran out and grabbed a 7 meter. I've since sold me LEI 14 Waroo from 2006 that I was patching and fixing. I have a 2017 Cabrinha Switchblade 14 that I am contemplating selling. So here's the problem.......

I had a Waroo 20 from 2006 that was my lightwind go to dream kite. I could fly in light wind all day. I was dreaming the Hyperlink would fly in the same light winds, bit it doesn't. This year the Waroo 20 finally had too many leaks to fix anymore. I'm done with bladders and pumps. No more. Too heavy to travel with. I love the foils, but where do I go now to close that light wind gap? My Hyperlink 12 can get me out into the waves in 11mph at the very least. 12 mph is better.

So what foil kite will fill that need but is still as easy to use as the Hyperlink 12? Move up to a used Chrono V3 15 or 18?

You don't hydrofoil yet?

Wait, don't buy anything, till you have learned foiling.

Maybe you don't need a new kite then, and things will change.

Even if your 20 m2 waroo was still alive, it would be useless for foiling for many reasons.

If you are average weight, your Hyperlink will get you going in 7-8 knots on a hydrofoil when you have learned good :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Foil » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:11 am

CARMELHILL wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:07 am
This spring I bought my first foil kite.... a 2018 closeout Ozone HyperlinkV1 12. I absolutely fell in love with it for my twin tip free riding. I'll try foil boarding this fall when the wind is more consistent. But I love that foil, so I ran out and grabbed a 7 meter. I've since sold me LEI 14 Waroo from 2006 that I was patching and fixing. I have a 2017 Cabrinha Switchblade 14 that I am contemplating selling. So here's the problem.......

I had a Waroo 20 from 2006 that was my lightwind go to dream kite. I could fly in light wind all day. I was dreaming the Hyperlink would fly in the same light winds, bit it doesn't. This year the Waroo 20 finally had too many leaks to fix anymore. I'm done with bladders and pumps. No more. Too heavy to travel with. I love the foils, but where do I go now to close that light wind gap? My Hyperlink 12 can get me out into the waves in 11mph at the very least. 12 mph is better.

So what foil kite will fill that need but is still as easy to use as the Hyperlink 12? Move up to a used Chrono V3 15 or 18?
Peter is spot on with his advice,
If I can add a bit as well as I have owned the 9 v1 hyperlink and used the 12 v1, currently own the 5 mtr v1 Hyperlink ultra light and a bunch of ultralight chrono V3 foil kites,
your hyperlinks will be great for leaning to hydrofoil on, the chrono kites will not be better,
the reason is the HL kites are just so user friendly, very easy to use compared to the chrono V3, my reason for owning just the 5mtr is it's my safe high wind kite,
it never feels threatining, loops are soft, power delivery is smooth and gentle,
For getting out through shore break in light onshore winds it's so much better than any lei, no drop back no slack line problems, relaunch is slightly easier(safer)

It's only after you have learnt foiling will you maybe be looking at upgrading to a Chrono V3 ULight, in the sizes above 6mtr
Reasons are many, some are-
The satisfying controllable punch the Chrono delivers,
the instant warp speed from zero
locked in very high and very fast upwind angles,
insane jumping in any wind, (the hyperlink is a great jumper as well but less so)
V3 UL is faster through the air,
the 15mtr Chrono V3 UL is faster than a 12 hyperlink, on all points of sailing, however the HLink is better I feel at deep downwind angles, therefore faster,
Chrono V3 UL is more exciting to use basically,
but not as safe feeling and gentle as a hyperlink.

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Re: kite for 7-12 knots?

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:26 pm

The best first kite for 7-12 knots is the used one you already own until you get a couple of sessions that surprise you and you say, "wow, i didn't swim this old rag home totally soaked today, I wonder what I did differently?"

Once you can sort of fly that old raggy piece of shit in the kind of lightwind conditions you enjoy, then go upgrade to a dedicated lightwind kite that you can now apply all these masterful lightwind skills to. The reality is I've seen people totally fux themselves up on a 21m race kite and then some dude on a 4m Cloud goes ripping by on an SUPfoil at 10 knots smiling ear to ear. It's not the gear, it's the gear + technique + conditions. You can control 2/3rds of that with the equipment you already have by just deliberately practicing.

I know this is sort of silly advice ultimately because some kites just DO NOT fly in that wind range, but my point is that you'll save mucho dinero figuring out how to leverage technique to give your existing quiver another 2-3 knots of low-end before going and spending $2500 on a lightwind sea-anchor.

Source: guy who has spent over $10k buying lightwind foil kites to finally figure out that I actually kind of suck at flying kites in light wind and the reason I keep swimming home is my technique. This is also incidentally why I love taking big kites out totally powered up because they're really fun kites once you don't have to worry about them tubesocking mid gybe.
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