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Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

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lightandfrost
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Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby lightandfrost » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:49 am

Light & Frost should have line lengths for the 15 meter by mid November and will publish as soon as available.

The 8 meter lengths have already been provided in this forum

Once 8 meter, 12 meter and 15 meter line lengths are known all other models can be interpolated. .

Pansh Aurora II 12 meter line lengths are listed below

All lengths are in centimeters

a1 430
a2 152
a3 129
a4 161
a5 132

b1 423
b2 142
b3 120
b4 166
b5 143
b6 132

c1 430
c2 142
c3 117
c4 146
c5 126

c6-l 066
c7 142

z1 185
z2 157
z3 160
z4 179
z5 158
z6 122
z7 090
z8 069

A23 244
A45 178

B23 252
B456 171

C223 263
c45 196

Z12 285
Z345 205
Z678 223

A 118
B 034
C 060

AXY 017

Y2 018

X 190
Y 106
Z 102

revhed
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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby revhed » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:09 am

Question please?
Are these 12m2 specs from Pansh or self measured?
I have this kite and have found someone who measured a new one and would like tune mine back to factory this winter.
Thanks!
You said you would post 15m2 Aurora 2, I have this
Aurora 2 15m2 bridle.jpg
I think from factory as see Chinese?
R H

lightandfrost
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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby lightandfrost » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:48 am

Thank you very much for the chart. We have been unable to find lineplan lengths for any Pansh kites. L&F wrote the manufacturer but received no reply. Could you tell us how you found the chart?

The lengths posted for the 8 and 12 meter kites were self measured. We may have self measured lengths for the 13 meter as soon as the owner provides them.

L&F have been using Ram-air kites since 2001 mostly Flysurf. We have restored many many kites back to factory settings. With Flysurf kites the lines shrink over time and the shrinkage is not thru use. For example two(2) 7.5 meter Psycho II kites used maybe three times and stored inside both underwent line shrinkage while in storage in a container out of the sun and heat. These kites became unflyable.

The best way to restore the lengths is to add larkshead extensions to the lines. For the thin lines we use 100 pound test dacron fishing line.

Pansh kites may not undergo shrinkage as the lines are of a different material. It would be interesting to see what you find as all our Pansh kites are new.

Thank you again!

L&F

revhed
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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby revhed » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:49 am

Pansh Aurora 2 12mtr ultralight
Delivery date 9 Feb 2018
Condition - new, unused
Weight 2.28kg
Bridle measurement taken without removal of any bridles from the canopy. Slight tension was applied to each bridle during measuring. Measurements in mm
A 1160
a1 4250
a2 1500
a3 1300
a4 1620
a5 1450
A23 2420
A45 1780
B 310
b1 4260
b2 1430
b3 1190
b4 1670
b5 1440
b6 1320
b8 1770
B23 2505
B456 1720
C 550
c1 4390
c2 1420
c3 1170
c4 1460
c5 1270
c6-1 6650
c6-2 2240
c7 1430
c8 1730
C23 2615
C45 1965
Z 1000
z1 1840
z2 1550
z3 2110
z4 1790
z5 1580
z6 1220
z7 900
z8 690
z9 1880
Z12 2850
Z345 2055
Z678 2240
X 1120
Y 1050
AXY 150
Also found this.
Do not know where I found either.
Bye the way, quite sure Pansh bridles will, have shrunk.
R H

lightandfrost
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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby lightandfrost » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:38 am

To revhed,

As mentioned above L&F has no experience with line shrinkage on Aurora II kites however here is what was found with Flysurf models from Psycho I to Speed III.

First our Psycho I kites from 2001 are still functional.

Respect kite line shrinkage - this line shrinkage is allowed to progress until the kite begins to show poor flying characteristics. The greatest shrinkage is normally the trailing edge lines usually labeled z or br.

For kites in the 15 meter range or greater, a trailing edge line shrinkage in the 8cm or greater usually requires a complete line audit and restoring to factory setting of ALL lines using larkshead extensions. Once done the kite has never had to undergo another line audit. Stretching the lines is not suggested as the lines quickly shrink again. For smaller kites the amount of shrinkage that can occur before the wing profile is compromised is proportionally smaller.

Currently our data shows approx 1cm per year shrinkage which for large kites slows when the lines approach 10cm.

Your kite is less then two years old hence line shrinkage should be small. A complete line audit may not be required.

Our 8 meter Aurora II kites did not fly at all when they arrived from the factory. However the excellent work of PugetSoundKiter at the below listed link solved our problems. See:

Pansh - What to check on arrival

viewtopic.php?t=2400642&start=10

Our kites has two distinct problems.

1. The leading edge was tucking down on one side and the kite would go into a violent spin. The suggestions provided by PugetSoundKiter solved this.

2, The tips were folding in. This was solved by insuring the center and steering lines were the same length and adjusting the depower system length.

In closing

You can reduce the drag and increase the turn rate and flying speed by removing the 5th line from the bottom center of the kite and reattaching it half way up one of the the center lines. All our Pulse I and II kites flew much better when the 5th line was moded to a center line instead. See the Flysurf Speed III line plan for details.

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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby foilholio » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:09 pm

You should try disconnecting or lengthening the tip Z bridles if you want more performance.

You should be able to calculate the bridle lengths for any size from that picture above if they are correct for their sizes.

For example if you look at the first value 10m a1 3944mm and 15m a1 4830mm. Using the formula to down size 4830*(squareroot(10)/ squareroot(15))=3943.7 or upsize 3944*(squareroot(15)/ squareroot(10))=4830.4.

for 12m 4830*(squareroot(12)/ squareroot(15))=4320.1

So a1 on 12m is 4320mm

revhed
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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby revhed » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:43 am

foilholio wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:09 pm
You should try disconnecting or lengthening the tip Z bridles if you want more performance.
I will try this as still have tip tuck when kite down turn jibe foiling at the end.
Do you mind being more specific like using bridal letter and number from chart below.
PANSHBRIDLE.jpg
PANSHBRIDLE.jpg (44.87 KiB) Viewed 251 times
Also always wondered about the ring sliding in between two connections, why?
Merci, R H

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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby lightandfrost » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:51 am

Our Tip fold problems were solved on our two(2) Aurora II kites as follows. The kites were modded as noted in the link above but the tip fold persisted

Balance the four lines so that the 4 kite lines are the same length when not attached to the bar.

Attach the four(4) lines to the bar.

With the lines under tension and the chkcken loop tight against the bar.

Shorten to depower system fully.

When the depower system is fully depowered(ie shortened), all four(4) lines are the same length when under tension.

If you shorten past this, tip fold begins to occur especially in the window. If the depower system is too long, tip fold occurs and the kite back stalls as it nears the window.

L&F is working on a Aurora II 12 meter kite for a friend as we speak and are just waiting for wind to do some final tests. If more is found will advise here. But this balancing solved our Pulse II 12 meter as well as Aurora II 8 meter kites.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby foilholio » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:33 pm

revhed wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:43 am
foilholio wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:09 pm
You should try disconnecting or lengthening the tip Z bridles if you want more performance.
I will try this as still have tip tuck when kite down turn jibe foiling at the end.
Do you mind being more specific like using bridal letter and number from chart below.
PANSHBRIDLE.jpg
Also always wondered about the ring sliding in between two connections, why?
Merci, R H
aurora2lineplan.jpg
I am referring to disconnecting the very tip bridle or z8. Any collapsing problem is either camber or AoA. By disconnecting or lengthening Z you will reduce camber and so collapsing. You may need to extend also other Z bridles like z7 and z6. Also you could look at shortening c7 to reduce camber and or lengthening c6-1 and b6 , to increase AOA and reduce camber.

I would say adjusting Z alone would fix the tips but the line plan for the tip is quite unusual. It is known as a wing warping setup. Normally in that setup B just transitions to the A position, but on this also C transitions. It is meant to improve turning, I think also would reduce the over pulling of Z because of the tapered wing. I think you would get the strange situation of where normal B and C shrink, mainly because of the pulley lines but also themselves that that will then pull on the tips more reducing their AoA and causing them to collapse. For that extending them will offer a solution at the tip. I would always start with Z though and see how that works.

You can also alter the shape of the cells to fix collapse. By reducing camber by shortening the top of the cell, as seen with flysurfer PMAs or making pleats in the top skin across the width.

The sliding line is just another way of adding a bridle. It is used here because there is no easier way to provide the correct ratio of pull given that only C and Z are on the tip. You would have to add an entire new bridle with pulley at the mixer if you wanted it separate. Otherwise you could mod the kite to have a more traditionally line plan by re bridling the tip BC to A, though it looks like the tip B is too far back on the kite.

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Re: Pansh Aurora II 12 Meter Line Lengths

Postby lightandfrost » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:43 pm

Thanks to the Pansh Aurora II chart provided by revhed and the line length formulas and excellent guidance from foilholio, a L&F programmer was able to write an xls program that determines the line length of any Aurora II kite from 8 meter thru 22 meter.

The program also allows the user to determine the length of any larkshead extensions required to return the kite to factory setting. When a line audit is conducted just enter the measured lengths in the appropriate block and the cutting length of the line is computed.

Due to the embedded booleans in each cell,only the cells where data needs to be entered are unprotected. However the code to unprotect the work sheet is written in clear text on the xls sheet

L&F will be happy to produce similar programs for the Aurora III kites if line plan lengths are provided.

We may write a linux version of this program in bash script in the near future.

L&F
Attachments
Pansh Aurora II Line Lengths.xls
(41 KiB) Downloaded 7 times


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