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Duotone Click vs Trust bar

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POACHER
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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby POACHER » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:00 pm

Leon van Bergen wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:38 pm
Do-it wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:25 am
Send me a link to these “$300.00 websites and I’ll give you an over the pants handy. 🙄
You could use Google?
Right? What a concept!!!...... and probably less effort than promising sexual favors online for someone to do it for you.
But whatevs, I'm just making shit up for the sake of argument. 😎

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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby purdyd » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:01 am

So what is inside of a click bar.
F365733B-70A5-4918-8C83-5F2E874DD5E8.jpeg
There are no worm gears There is a split spool, the winder, and a push button with a spring
4EE217EE-64EB-4037-9DAC-51E12AC3410C.jpeg
The spool has pawls on top and bottom and when the button is pushed, it disengages the top pawls and the spool is free to rotate. When the button is released, spring pulls the spool into the winder. With the button released the winder rotates the spool.



When the button is pushed and there is some tension on the lines, the spool rotates a quarter turn and the bottom pawls are engaged by stops. When the button is released, the spool releases from the bottom stop, and rotates another quarter turn and engages the winder. This sequence keeps the spool from continuously unwinding and you feel and hear the click clack as you push and release and the spool rotates and hits the stops.
A23B8A04-8FF8-411D-BFCC-12699E55ADFA.jpeg

It’s obvious there was a lot of time spent on this design. Note the graphic on the inside of the cover. Even the rope used inside seems of a superior quality. And my concern of wear in lines from the spool and from the two 6mm posts that the left line passes over on its path to the left side appears to have been wrong.
8611F7D6-976A-46C0-B76D-0CB2DB2198FA.jpeg
It is interesting to note that since the left line come up from below the spool and right rear from above, the forces cancel each other out.

However, since the lines are on opposite side of the spool, they produce a moment. That is why when there is a good load on the rear lines the depower button can be hard to press as the pawls are pushed tight together from this moment.

Given that there is a quick movement and stop when the button is pushed, it is probably best to not to use heroic force to activate the button to depower and instead sheet out to reduce tension on the rear lines and then push the depower button,

The real Achilles heal of the click bar is the red depower line as it passes through the pu square tubing and the iron heart quick release.

What makes the click bar somewhat unique is that the depower line is under full tension from one of the front lines of the kite which has the advantsge that both front leader lines are carrying equal load.

However, if sand gets into the line as will often happen if the depower line is used and reset, that tension works to abrade sand into the line.

I changed both of these depower lines this last spring.
6027CCD6-2305-4885-BBE8-1C442FAF4E99.jpeg
Last edited by purdyd on Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:16 am

POACHER wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:00 pm
Leon van Bergen wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:38 pm
Do-it wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:25 am
Send me a link to these “$300.00 websites and I’ll give you an over the pants handy. 🙄
You could use Google?
Right? What a concept!!!...... and probably less effort than promising sexual favors online for someone to do it for you.
But whatevs, I'm just making shit up for the sake of argument. 😎
Problem is finding the pages at the right time after trawling through hundreds of results. The Kite and Wake page only has new ones now...

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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby longwhitecloud » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:20 pm

thx for pics -it's interesting seeing the engineering - kind of a coil /reel ratchet and spring.

Moving parts, sand, unseen wear, maintenance, heavier, way more expensive RRP, filding around on one side of the bar in gusty situations - one steering side, harder to release under load, the dodgy china stainless trust equation "we promise its 316", potential shear forces too - unlikely but possible - any thing is possible.

Such an necessary risk adding more complex mechanical components than a traditional cleat for no benefit at all really.

Get them on sale while you can cos i bet they dont exist a couple of years down the track. I can't see kite shops wanting anything to do with offering aftercare with products like this down the line, they don't look too excited about octopus bladders or complex depower and safety systems - let alone this.

Well enjoy your click bars and similar if that is the kind of thing you like.They are the work of a very recently graduated engineer in my eyes, if graduated at all, and more importantly with no extensive experience in kiting.

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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby surfkite25 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:43 pm

I've had a click bar for two years. Just added a second. Run one with 22m lines and the second with 24m lines for light wind days. I have not experienced the durability issues that I have read about from others online. The biggest plus for me is the ability to finely tune the depower in controlled increments while I ride. With the traditional, above the bar depower, Id always have to stop and reach up to grab the depower. Pulling in or letting out the line just guessing. With the click bar I can dial in the depower while riding, which is really helpful. Not saying its worth the premium over the trust bar, but I really like it. I think in the future more and more bars will be offered with the depower in the back lines. Hopefully durability will go up and price comes down as more manufacturers create offerings.

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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby purdyd » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:20 pm

Moving parts, sand, unseen wear, maintenance, heavier, way more expensive RRP, filding around on one side of the bar in gusty situations - one steering side, harder to release under load, the dodgy china stainless trust equation "we promise its 316", potential shear forces too - unlikely but possible - any thing is possible.

Such an necessary risk adding more complex mechanical components than a traditional cleat for no benefit at all really

Well enjoy your click bars and similar if that is the kind of thing you like.They are the work of a very recently graduated engineer in my eyes, if graduated at all, and more importantly with no extensive experience in kiting.
There are moving parts in front line trim systems. Which have to hold a lot more force for extended periods of time.

I have had zero maintenance on the adjustment mechanism over two years. I do open the ends up twice a year to inspect.

Sand is not an issue.

The bar is heavy but it is not because of the winding mechanism.

It is roughly the same cost as other top of the line bars.

Whether you adjust the front lines or the rear lines, you have to remove one hand from the bar. The push button depower and rotate to power, is much less fiddly than using a cleat. It is quite easy to do when riding one handed.

I don’t think it is much harder to release under load.

Dodgy Chinese stainless is a universal problem. There are plenty of stainless pieces in bars that you are trusting.

There is no potential shear forces, there are shear forces. Including the shear on the pins used in front line adjustment systems. Those are the components that bother me.

However, stainless steel is pretty strong stuff Those little 6mm pins will hold over 10000 lbs in shear.

There are cleats and pulleys and pins, and ropes, and webbing in front line adjustment systems which are under a higher peak and continuous load.

There are performance advantages to having a repeatable power adjustment system. Also since it quick and repeatable it opens up possibilities to adjust on the fly, even on a wave face. You can increase power with no line tension. You can have a long throw and still adjust the power, important for smaller people.

Simple and clean visually.

You do not have to have a bungee in the depower line or have it loose.

Frankly, it is hard to go back to a cleat adjustment after using a click bar.

They are not the work of a single recently graduated engineer. But rather a team and it is obvious a lot of time was spent on development and making it manufacturable and fool proof.

https://www.thekiteboarder.com/2018/10/ ... click-bar/

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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:27 am

Interesting reading again.

It is part of the current over technicalisation of kiteboarding equipment and the marketing concept of percieved added value ( higher profit margins). However you look at it there are little to no benefits in reality.


It is something that anyone can easily do with their current setup ( short arms accepted even then there are other more simple solutions) but hardly ever need to do on a well tuned kite riding the correct size for the day.

Keep it simple, minimise risk, and encourage a new generation of young riders by not showing other young influential riders ripping on over priced, over complex equipment.

Brought to market in 2013, was still studying in 2009, that makes the concept creator (working with an industrial designer - well that is good, not a graduate at all or at max a very recent graduate of who knows what and not an overly experienced kiter at the time as well.


Jayzuz the person that writes duo tone's copy is the king /queen spin master of all time lol

I won't be adjusting my depower in the middle of riding a wave any time soon.

Enjoy your clickbar, but i think they are soooooo wrong.

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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby Teabageppo » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:04 am

Longcloudwhite… I've heard countless stories of the durability and great application of the click bar. And yet all you can say is it is wrong, and they won't be around in two years and and and… live a little mate and look at the evidence, not what you just think based on pre- conceived conditioned ideas
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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby dice » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:10 am

It's just pathetic that people need to complain on everything they don't have or can't afford.
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Re: Duotone Click vs Trust bar

Postby Matteo V » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:42 am

dice wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:10 am
It's just pathetic that people need to complain on everything they don't have or can't afford.
I am pissed that the space shuttle is so expensive and complicated and too big to drive around town. So I'll just stick with a car.....or maybe even a bike.


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