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Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

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PrfctChaos
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby PrfctChaos » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:23 pm

A wing to go fast, one to go slow, one in the middle for freeride. Does it ever end.... I dont know 😂.

I'm making a new replacement freeride wing at the moment, will put up some specs tomorrow. Going for 750mm wingspan and 900cm^2 area. Need a replacement to slot in between the tiny race wing and big wave wing (the current freeride wing gave admirable service, but it is out of date alas).
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salvatoreone (Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:50 pm)
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salvatoreone
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby salvatoreone » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:50 pm

I think I understand what you're saying, once you make one it's itching to make another! 😂

fluidity
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby fluidity » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:26 am

salvatoreone wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 am
Thanks! I only made the front wing and the back stab is stock slingshot so I have no idea what's the angle on the back, but the front is neutral angle.

I just had second session with the wing and it was a dream! Really easy to ride but definitely on a slower side ;)
So keen to learn to use the two I made. I have tip downturn and proportional thinning towards tips which seems to be getting good reviews on commercial ones. Looking at yours inspires me to build again :D I'm wondering how wide I could go and have control :o

PrfctChaos
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby PrfctChaos » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:29 am

PrfctChaos wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:23 pm
A wing to go fast, one to go slow, one in the middle for freeride. Does it ever end.... I dont know 😂.

I'm making a new replacement freeride wing at the moment, will put up some specs tomorrow. Going for 750mm wingspan and 900cm^2 area. Need a replacement to slot in between the tiny race wing and big wave wing (the current freeride wing gave admirable service, but it is out of date alas).
I'm a novice to moulding, but recently gave it the first shot on a small fast little Stab. Was super happy with how the stab came out (my new favourite, loose and very little drag). And the process of moulding was surprisingly easy, I was expecting to hit some pitfalls, but nope things just went smoothly. I'm so used to the multiple steps and waiting involved with laminating, that I was totally surprised by how quick and easy it was to just lay up the mould. Then once it was cured the resultant wing just needed a quick trim and sand and it was literally ready to use, felt like I was missing a few steps!!
Capture.PNG
Anycase, decided to make the new freeride front wing by moulding it as well. Going for a 750 mm wide wing, 900 sq.cm. And optimised for a pretty highish speed range of 17.5 - 50 Km/h (~10-30 Knots). Hopefully it goes well, the drag values are nice and low in the middle of the range.
Capture2.PNG

salvatoreone
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby salvatoreone » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:31 am

fluidity wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:26 am
So keen to learn to use the two I made. I have tip downturn and proportional thinning towards tips which seems to be getting good reviews on commercial ones. Looking at yours inspires me to build again :D I'm wondering how wide I could go and have control :o
Ah yeah, mine is 75cm Span and 177mm Chord and all curves are elliptical (looking from the top, looking from the front and also wingtips are elliptical).
PrfctChaos wrote:
I'm a novice to moulding, but recently gave it the first shot on a small fast little Stab. Was super happy with how the stab came out (my new favourite, loose and very little drag). And the process of moulding was surprisingly easy, I was expecting to hit some pitfalls, but nope things just went smoothly. I'm so used to the multiple steps and waiting involved with laminating, that I was totally surprised by how quick and easy it was to just lay up the mould. Then once it was cured the resultant wing just needed a quick trim and sand and it was literally ready to use, felt like I was missing a few steps!!
Capture.PNG
Anycase, decided to make the new freeride front wing by moulding it as well. Going for a 750 mm wide wing, 900 sq.cm. And optimised for a pretty highish speed range of 17.5 - 50 Km/h (~10-30 Knots). Hopefully it goes well, the drag values are nice and low in the middle of the range.
Capture2.PNG
So it's just hollow with few layers of carbon on the outside?

PrfctChaos
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby PrfctChaos » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:15 am

All solid carbon. At about 0.2 mm thickness per sheet it doesn't take too many layers to get to 5-6mm for the stab or around 10mm for the front wing.

Will think about replacinng the centre fill with cheap thick fibreglass or foam for thicker projects, but not worth the effort for me on these thin wings. And theres a certain piece of mind that comes from soild carbon.
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Jake_55 (Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:28 pm)
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qba-epp11
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby qba-epp11 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:47 am

Image
My friend testing F-one IC300 stab with W633. Works very well. Another from pic testing with W873. I finnish make custom W1100 and also will be test with IC300

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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby Jake_55 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:40 pm

@PrfctChaos

Hi,

thanks a lot for all the simulations and the help in this forum. I'm currently planning to build a foil for my self too. I'm planning on using an cnc to cut foam and then laminating it with fibreglass. It would be awesome if you could run your simulation for my case too.
I weigh 70kg - board included I'm assuming a weight of 80kg. I'm planning on building a 1200cm² board. The aspect ration is going to be 3.5. Width of the foil will be 64.8cm. The takeoff speed should be pretty low and I'm therefore assuming 5knts/9.5kmh. The max speed can be around 30-35kmh. I live in northern Germany, so the water is a bit colder. I'm assuming 16°C seawater.

Again, it'd be awesome if you could help me out. I'll be sure to post about my build progress.

Thanks :)
Jake

PrfctChaos
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby PrfctChaos » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:06 am

Jake_55 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:40 pm
@PrfctChaos

Hi,

thanks a lot for all the simulations and the help in this forum. I'm currently planning to build a foil for my self too. I'm planning on using an cnc to cut foam and then laminating it with fibreglass. It would be awesome if you could run your simulation for my case too.
I weigh 70kg - board included I'm assuming a weight of 80kg. I'm planning on building a 1200cm² board. The aspect ration is going to be 3.5. Width of the foil will be 64.8cm. The takeoff speed should be pretty low and I'm therefore assuming 5knts/9.5kmh. The max speed can be around 30-35kmh. I live in northern Germany, so the water is a bit colder. I'm assuming 16°C seawater.

Again, it'd be awesome if you could help me out. I'll be sure to post about my build progress.

Thanks :)
Jake
Hello Jake,

Happy to run the calcs mate. However, one thing to note, a steady cruising speed of 5 knots on a 1200 cm² is likely too much to ask from that size (The winging size wings will go that slow much more easily). The lowest any of the profiles will cruise at for that size / load / speed is around 6 knots (below that all the profiles in the database have stalled) and drag is pretty high (Dominated by lift induced drag, as a function of wing span off course), drag at cruising speed of around 4Kg. This is what the result looks like for 10-35 km/hr:

That dotted line is the lift induced drag and even with a completely drag free theoretical profile it is not possible to go below that dotted line (conventionally speaking. If someone works at Nasa or Boeing and can tell me some secrets I'm all ears). The lift induced drag gets higher as the speed decreases, or as wingspan decreases or weight increases.
Capture.PNG
In this case I would recommend aiming for a higher speed bracket, we know that being able to start is not the same as cruising speed. Here is what a set of results look like for a speed bracket of around 10-30 knots, where cruising drag is closer to 3Kg. Selected profile in this case is the MH23.

It should also be noted that the actual sweetspot when in use will be at a lower speed, this happens because the parasitic drag from mast, fuselage, stab etc (not included here) increase as speed increases, thus the total drag at higher speeds will increase more, moving the cruising sweetspot down to a lower speed.
Capture2.PNG
Also, the optimiser 5000 says that gains are to be had in the direction of higher wingspan and smaller wing area for this load / speed combination. But you might off course have good reasons for choosing the low aspect ratio dimensions, like handling I assume.
Capture3.PNG
Capture3.PNG (18.95 KiB) Viewed 194 times

Jake_55
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Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby Jake_55 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:25 pm

PrfctChaos wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:06 am
Happy to run the calcs mate.
PrfctChaos,

Thanks so much for running these simulations, especially for all the detail you put into it, explaining the results! So fast too :thumb: !!! I can't thank you enough actually.
I'll be sure to post a few updates in the comming weeks.

You rock!

- Jake


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