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Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue May 24, 2022 5:42 pm

Onda wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 11:40 am
I hope that as many folks as possible will switch to winging. Gives me more space and less hassle with my kiting :lol:

But joking aside: I decided to wait 2-3 years before I´ll buy my first winging kit. Quality and efficiency will increase, price will decrease. Letting the early adopters mature the products...

I dont think so....

That prices will go down - only up, if any change.

Like we see in all other watersports - windsurfing and kitesurfing and foiling and so on.

Gear becomes better (or so they write at least), instead of prices going down.

IMO, wingfoilgear hasnt changed much over the last years :wink:

It is, like in all disciplines, more a matter of different riders finding their niches regarding which type they want - and this goes for the foilwing mostly, not as much the wing or board which are pretty "uninteresting" now, compared to the foilwing.
As the latter is where it all differ, do you want a small high aspect superfast wing which cant ride slow, or a big high aspect fast but slow turning wing, or a medium aspect agile fun turning wing, or a big easy wing for learning.
And one could go on and on.

Regarding those trying wingfoil, and backing away - it could just as well be a reason to defend ones choice, more than what is fun :rollgrin:
OR, because it does not make sense in ones regional area of course :naughty:

Wings are improving too yes, but the rate of evolution is slow.
Aluula and similar is a bigger improvement, if one wants to pay.

8) Peter

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby RadDrDuke » Thu May 26, 2022 6:55 pm

Now that I've been winging for 6 months I can confidently say that kite foiling is going to be dead. In winds I used to kitefoil in (8-13knots) now I wingfoil every time, it's just a better tool to use with a foil. I used to be able to go in significantly lighter wind with kitefoil but now that I am advanced winger that low-end is only about 2 knots better with kitefoil.

Wingfoil Comparison To Kitefoil
Pros:
-Wind dying is no longer catastrophic (with kitefoil it requires a swim in with kite and usually tiny board), with the wing you just come off foil and wait for another gust or sit down and sail in.
-Much better for riding waves on wingfoil, can flag out and do whatever you want on the wave.
-Easier to go downwind on wingfoil, kitefoiling this is very difficult as you can outrun the kite.
-Newer/trendy, or newer and lame but depends on how you look at things in life.

Cons:
-Wingfoil requires >10knots more wind than kitefoil for beginner wingers and ~2knots more for advanced wingers.
-New sport requires learning and another $4000 in gear
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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby bragnouff » Thu May 26, 2022 9:02 pm

RadDrDuke wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 6:55 pm
Now that I've been winging for 6 months I can confidently say that kite foiling is going to be dead. In winds I used to kitefoil in (8-13knots) now I wingfoil every time, it's just a better tool to use with a foil. I used to be able to go in significantly lighter wind with kitefoil but now that I am advanced winger that low-end is only about 2 knots better with kitefoil.

Wingfoil Comparison To Kitefoil
Pros:
-Wind dying is no longer catastrophic (with kitefoil it requires a swim in with kite and usually tiny board), with the wing you just come off foil and wait for another gust or sit down and sail in.
-Much better for riding waves on wingfoil, can flag out and do whatever you want on the wave.
-Easier to go downwind on wingfoil, kitefoiling this is very difficult as you can outrun the kite.
-Newer/trendy, or newer and lame but depends on how you look at things in life.

Cons:
-Wingfoil requires >10knots more wind than kitefoil for beginner wingers and ~2knots more for advanced wingers.
-New sport requires learning and another $4000 in gear
That's entirely your opinion, probably tainted by your local conditions.
2 knots at the bottom is huge. And it's actually even wider than that for advanced kite foilers with racing gear. And the level of performance (speed and upwind angles) is much higher.
Wind drops a bit, you can keep working your kite hard and get back to shore on foil and at speed. On a wing, there's only so much pumping one can do to overcome the drop in the wind. That means that coming back to shore will take a long time. Different story when wind drops a lot.
Wave riding abilities is also not clear cut. Extra speed, smaller board, smaller foil bring advantages to the kite side for waveriding, as well as ability to start (or restart) in shallower waters than the wingfoil, ability to body drag and just get out in the waves is also in favour of the kiting, in some places, with onshore conditions.
Full unobstructed field of view, perfect vision of the wave is also an advantage for kiting.

I don't see the Apex predator dying out any time soon. On some spots, winfoiling might completely take over, but it's not necessarily the case everywhere.
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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby Toby » Thu May 26, 2022 9:05 pm

wonder why there are only so few hydrofoilers at the Big Air event...and no women at all.

That's sad.

viewtopic.php?t=2413131

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby grigorib » Thu May 26, 2022 9:56 pm

Toby wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 9:05 pm
wonder why there are only so few hydrofoilers at the Big Air event...and no women at all.

That's sad.

viewtopic.php?t=2413131
Going onto a trampoline with a sword is on the opposite end of wise :)
And besides obvious risks of cutting body parts off - jumping with a foil is one most certain way of breaking it and no manufacturer would advertise a foil as a “jumping machine”

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby deniska » Fri May 27, 2022 3:41 am

grigorib wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 9:56 pm
Going onto a trampoline with a sword is on the opposite end of wise :)
And besides obvious risks of cutting body parts off - jumping with a foil is one most certain way of breaking it and no manufacturer would advertise a foil as a “jumping machine”
this is official slinshot video for Ghost Whisper also feaured in their foil academy series
They made sure that all frames with the kite (Elf) were taken out..


and yes, the video is a bit misleading as hypermiler board, used by Adam, would quicky develop a crack under a front foot if used for boosting..
I broke 2 :-)
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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri May 27, 2022 11:07 am

bragnouff wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 9:02 pm
RadDrDuke wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 6:55 pm
Now that I've been winging for 6 months I can confidently say that kite foiling is going to be dead. In winds I used to kitefoil in (8-13knots) now I wingfoil every time, it's just a better tool to use with a foil. I used to be able to go in significantly lighter wind with kitefoil but now that I am advanced winger that low-end is only about 2 knots better with kitefoil.

Wingfoil Comparison To Kitefoil
Pros:
-Wind dying is no longer catastrophic (with kitefoil it requires a swim in with kite and usually tiny board), with the wing you just come off foil and wait for another gust or sit down and sail in.
-Much better for riding waves on wingfoil, can flag out and do whatever you want on the wave.
-Easier to go downwind on wingfoil, kitefoiling this is very difficult as you can outrun the kite.
-Newer/trendy, or newer and lame but depends on how you look at things in life.

Cons:
-Wingfoil requires >10knots more wind than kitefoil for beginner wingers and ~2knots more for advanced wingers.
-New sport requires learning and another $4000 in gear
That's entirely your opinion, probably tainted by your local conditions.
2 knots at the bottom is huge. And it's actually even wider than that for advanced kite foilers with racing gear. And the level of performance (speed and upwind angles) is much higher.
Wind drops a bit, you can keep working your kite hard and get back to shore on foil and at speed. On a wing, there's only so much pumping one can do to overcome the drop in the wind. That means that coming back to shore will take a long time. Different story when wind drops a lot.
Wave riding abilities is also not clear cut. Extra speed, smaller board, smaller foil bring advantages to the kite side for waveriding, as well as ability to start (or restart) in shallower waters than the wingfoil, ability to body drag and just get out in the waves is also in favour of the kiting, in some places, with onshore conditions.
Full unobstructed field of view, perfect vision of the wave is also an advantage for kiting.

I don't see the Apex predator dying out any time soon. On some spots, winfoiling might completely take over, but it's not necessarily the case everywhere.

Must say I can not reckognize what RadDrDuke writes....

Around here, even the top riders and pros, dont wing when its 8 knots, actually not even in 10 (even though it could be done with special gear)
Above 11 knots is the realistic wind used by esperienced.
bragnouff got a point regarding when wind drops a bit and you are not up foilin - you are parked on a wing :o
Having winged myself for 3 seasons, I can say for sure I HATE it, almost as the old windsurf days with too little wind, just worse with a wing.
When wind it is great, eventhough boring on flat water, wing is great !
But as soon as too little wind it is the worst by far, of all disciplines...

Whereas kitefoiling you can usually still ride when wind drops.
The 8-11 knots range is so much faster to rig and pack a kitefoil and get on the water and up, compared to wing.
Quite small kites work in this wind, 5-6-8 m2 single skin kites.

One main advantage with kitefoil is getting out, so much easier with a small board and the ability to pull yourself out over all the sandbanks and breaking waves.
Whereas with a wingfoil you have to carry a big monster (even when same volume as your weight, and carbon), and walk and walk and walk to get out deep.

Also agree that kitefoils turns so much faster and more lively, you can turn in the waves at extreme pace and tight.
Wingfoil offers the ability to "surf" the waves though, in an awesome way.
I see these as two very different sports though, and can not be compared - both are great but very different.
Assembling a wingfoil is bugger, compared to a kitefoil - but at least I can have it assembled in my car, otherwise I would never wingfoil :lol:

Some can have local conditions dictating one or another, but in general both can be done pretty much everywhere.

One thing has changed for me though, I dont use my 3 and 4 m2 kite as much, as it is sweetspot for wingfoil meaning 13 to 20 knots.
So below 13 knots definitely kitefoil with small wavefoilkites, and eventually when below 8 knots maybe big foilkites.
from 13 to 20 knots usually wingfoil, if I can find a spot which is not flat water.
And above 20 knots I go on surfboards with 7 - 6 - 5 m2 LEI kites (havent used my 8 and 9 for surfboard for years anyways, way too big and boring)

You get an idea when you see how "hungry" those only wingfoiling gets, and they try and try often unsuccessfully when wind is on the limit or too low - they look in envy at us flying around in less wind with small kites :rollgrin:

8) Peter

PS: What is "The Apex Predator"??? Kitefoiling?
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Fri May 27, 2022 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby Toby » Fri May 27, 2022 11:14 am

For people with problems in arms or shoulders winging never will be an option…while kite foiling is.

Never dies. Plus the jumping…there are people who love the feeling of flying…and landing soft….

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby nothing2seehere » Fri May 27, 2022 12:14 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 11:07 am
PS: What is "The Apex Predator"??? Kitefoiling?
Apex predator is a term used to refer to the top dog in the food chain in relation to lesser predator animals. E.g. the Lion vs the Hyena when hunting prey in Africa

He's joking here about how the Kitefoil is the best of all foiling disciplines - though in terms of flexibility there is a level of truth here (can be fast/ can be done in waves/ can jump high/ lighter and smaller equipment and so forth) so although there may be individual sports that are better in certain cases (e.g. E-foil is the undisputed light wind champion - nothing goes with less wind) they can't match the overall package.

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby andylc » Fri May 27, 2022 12:21 pm

Other than pros I have still yet to see a wingfoiler looking like they’re having much fun. Weirdly they were out in force at Exmouth last week when there was hardly any wind and they were largely just floating. Then the wind got up and it started being fun, but the wingfoilers all buggered off at this point!
Last edited by andylc on Fri May 27, 2022 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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