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3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

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Havre
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Havre » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:34 am

How can you say it is mostly marketing?

Would have been fun to see a test between a 5 and 3 strut kite with the same overall design. How it bends when you load it up etc. and how it would react differently depending on the weight of the rider.

I'm not going to say that there isn't a 3 strut kite out there that works for a heavy rider boosting, but 100x the Rebel compared to for example the Dice (not tried the Evo unfortunately).

I have never ridden a kite at 75 kg, but funny how even the most experienced riders complete misunderstand how much weight matters. I don't know how many times people have said I shouldn't go out with such a big kite in this wind (if it is a 17m in South Africa or 9m in Brazil) and I have been completely fine.

If you are looking for pure boost. Boy the Rebel is fun. Personally I'm leaning towards the Orbit 2021.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby mplamplampla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:39 am

I didn't say that the difference between 3 and 5 struts are marketing. I said the difference between the high aspect 5 strut kites of different companies are mostly marketing. So rebel and dice are different kites but rebel and edge, xr etc have tiny differences between them.
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BOEMIX
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby BOEMIX » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:50 pm

I'm also on the big side, and I always heard the dogma "don't buy anything bigger than 12m" that I followed until I got my 14m Enduro.

Having an Edge 13m before, I could compare them each other.

Both kites have similar power,but you need different thecniques the get the most of it for jumping.

While enduro is more a edge hard/fast redirection to jump high, Edge is a matter of how much speed you could get before taking off.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby GJibb » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:19 pm

Hello
I weigh 250lbs.
I have a strong preference for 3 strut kites and have adapted it through my whole quiver. I find them much more lively and beneficial in every way.
BUT
The question I will pose is how hard are you guys pumping your kites?

I know that my kites have very skinny tubes (Liquid Force Wow V2) but I still pump every kite I have to 10-11 psi (according to the gauge, WMFG 2.0T. Yes i know about inaccuracies). Giant tubed kites (Slingshot SST has giant LE) maybe a little less pressure but absolutely in every case HARD.
I have ZERO understanding of how Duotone only wants 6psi and have serious doubts whenever I've helped any other people when their kites aren't rigid.

Anyways, My point is how hard are you pumping your kites,
and 30 knots on a 12m? that seems unnecessary. Sure the kite probably (maybe) can handle it but all you're doing is stretching the material and being dumb. I'm sure a smaller kite would be a better choice. I'm not riding my 12 in 30 knots, let alone expecting to be able to self land it or walk anywhere on a beach trying to hold on to that thing.

NotsoShort
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby NotsoShort » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:19 pm

The wind strength was 25 knots and the gust hitting 30knots. I had a 1/4 de power on and was comfortable. When I started kitesurfing de power systems weren’t that great and it was more to do with board control. I know my limits being an experienced kite surfer.

Looking at the kites which seem to be the highest boosting kites mainly have 5 struts,

I suppose different techniques boosting on open c kites to bow. My friend who was on a rebel 12m was getting over 10m. He is sane weight as me 🧐

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GJibb
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby GJibb » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:03 pm

Whenever i TRY to boost big I almost exclusively F it up. When i try to just slow things down (mentally take things step by step) I always have way more control and end up being higher with it. I tend to turn too far upwind and it cuts out power, when I think about just riding on my course and loading and jumping (off the water) then things are better.
I do the board control thing too, see guys ride 100% all the time rather then just slow(er) and in control and then explosive when everything is lining up.
Kevin Langeree talked about that in a video (or maybe someone made a video about him). When the wind is cranking he sits there idol cruising until its time to fly and then all hell breaks loose. I took that to my riding and find it more comfortable.

I'm not convinced a 5 strut would allow someone to jump higher, but kite shape would have a little effect (bow/c/wave kite) but not as much as experience and technique.

Have fun, stay safe.
If you have the funds to gain experience with more equipment types then all the power to you. It took me 7 years to find kites that work for me, and now a garage with way too much gear. I don't think I would have figured it out any other way.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby NotsoShort » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:59 pm

Yeah I agree it’s also about finding the kite for you. With COVID the demo days have been non existent. Hopefully next year will give opportunities to try some other makes. 😎

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Blackened » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 am

Havre wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:34 am
I have never ridden a kite at 75 kg, but funny how even the most experienced riders complete misunderstand how much weight matters. I don't know how many times people have said I shouldn't go out with such a big kite in this wind (if it is a 17m in South Africa or 9m in Brazil) and I have been completely fine.
I wish people understood this. When I go out, most people are 3-5 sizes smaller.

..Although I'm not sure I'd bring a 17m to Capetown. I'd just wait a couple hours for the 10/9m wind :).
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Blackened
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Blackened » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:49 am

GJibb wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:19 pm
The question I will pose is how hard are you guys pumping your kites?

Anyways, My point is how hard are you pumping your kites, and 30 knots on a 12m? that seems unnecessary. Sure the kite probably (maybe) can handle it but all you're doing is stretching the material and being dumb. I'm sure a smaller kite would be a better choice. I'm not riding my 12 in 30 knots, let alone expecting to be able to self land it or walk anywhere on a beach trying to hold on to that thing.
The 3-struters will perform much better for heavier riders if you pump the absolute shit out of them. I learnt this on my Evos when I was pumping above the recommended PSI and was still having folding issues. Someone recommended I put some more pressure in and it did perform better, so I pumped it hard as a rock and it was great. It still folded, but didn't do it until the gusts. Normal riding it was fine. I suspect the Pivot with the 11PSI would probably be the best 3-strut choice of the fatties looking to boost. While the Evos are still my favourite kite because they're super stable, easy to use, and almost impossible to screw up, I run 5-struters because the canopy and leading edge stability tend to be greater.

30kn on a 12m is hilarity. It really depends on what you're doing with it. If I go out in 23kn, I tend to go out on the 12m. I'll continue to ride it until about 30kn as it's super fun/impressive to do floaty board offs at height. Above 30kn I'm definitely swapping to the 9m for some looping.

I'll also agree with mplamplampla that the 5-struters tend to be designed for boosting, so obviously they're a lot easier for the average person to jump higher on.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby fernmanus » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:06 am

The RPM while not a kite designed for big air is still a decent booster. You should be able to easily jump 7 to 10m in the conditions you described at your weight with proper technique, even in bad chop. In flat water or nice waves, much higher.

The temptation is to think that gear will solve your problems, but in your case I would start with technique. There are lots of videos and posts on how to jump higher, so I will not repeat them. Spend your time learning one technique at a time. Sure, it is okay to go to a higher aspect ratio kite, but right now you really need to work on the basics. A good idea is to have someone film your jumps and then review the video with a fellow rider that boosts high. You will begin to see what is limiting you.

If you were limited to jumping 15m high on your RPM, I would be telling you to switch out the kite, but 4m, why you can probably hit that without even sending the kite. It is all technique for you at this point.


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