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Lineset Recommendations

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Matteo V
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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby Matteo V » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:03 pm

t_huebs wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:39 pm
I'm off Q-power after the cover died and the core was exposed right at the base of a sewn termination, after not much use foiling. I was thinking about trying the knots just to see but after watching the pull tests, I think I'm going to skip it. Watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b16Z0YzsfeU
The key to maintaining strength at sleeved sewn loops is to wet the line first.

Most kiters know that a child's kite flown on cotton string will cut right through your dyneema kite line. The strength critical temp for dyneema is around 150⁰F (66⁰C). Its melting temp is 277⁰F (136⁰C). The friction of the cotton line going over kite lines will cut right through dyneema by either melting it or reducing its strength under load.

The needle and Nylon or Dacron thread of a fast moving sewing machine will do the same. By wetting the dyneema, and even the thread, you can avoid cutting the inner strands with friction heat.

No factory would ever go to these lengths to ensure full strength of the splice loop. This attention to detail is something that you can only get by building the lineset yourself.
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t_huebs
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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby t_huebs » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:35 am

51393903-2233-47D1-86BF-18DEDB8B07FD.jpeg
Posted this elsewhere but issue wasn’t really with sewing.

nixmatters
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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby nixmatters » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:55 am

geokite wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:31 am
I recommend getting SK99 by the foot at greenhat kiteboarding, and learn to splice. It's not hard, just time consuming.
what?!? :roll: $150 for 100 meters of SK99 line!
For such price he can have a ready made set and not bother with measuring, pulling and splicing.

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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby Herman » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:41 am

watercamper wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:17 am

Is there a video or site that you've found from a reputable source that shows how to make a splice? From what I read, you don't have to sew a splice or need to sleeve it.
Hi watercamper! As already stated Marlow is a good source of info and gear. As you probably know the stitching in a splice with a full bury is, simplistically, only there to hold the splice in place when not under load. For flying lines I use a simple splice with long bury but normally put in a few loose hand sown stitches. With the nature of the splice and use, I am tempted not to bother with stitching and so, I would be interested to know if you can pass on any in practice experience with lines without stitching. Obviously it would have to be factored into your line management and inspection routine.

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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby Foil » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:12 pm

using Q power line is an interesting and rewarding if at times frustrating experience, I make up line set now and service bars, but Qline gave me kite feedback that was never replicable from using any other line, it was like using carbon steel lines, no spring in the line at all, solid connection to the kite, resulting in the best jumping experience ever, so good, take off is rapid, kite loops are strong,the feeling through the bar is so different, no delay to steering input,
that's the good side of using Qline, but the bad sides are many and I still use Qline, but not on my bars, only now for feeding lines through the pu tube of the click bars I service, its so stiff and lasts forever,
the downsides are many, so noisy it drives you bonkers, jumping on cloudy summer days can be electrified, the static charge that Q line develops discharges with a loud crack as you get back to near touchdown to the surface, this is felt through the hands on the bar and the feet, its a shock like touching a car door edge in the same weather conditions, its get that bad that jumping stops for the day, then its the tangles, it happens big time, the lines are so stiff, you cant avoid it some times, and the knots to make up the loops are line snag points, and they snag for fun just to wind you up, and the other downside is the line is not easy to cut in an emergency, i wont go into details of my nasty accident in 2004 when i was lofted into the railings of a sea wall, nearly loosing my foot, but my kite was wanting to pull me clear of the railings and over the roofs on the sea front houses, my buddy was loosing his mind as he simply failed to cut the lines with his line knife,and the rescue guys on the boats in egypt a few year later told me my lines were very dangerous as they could disable the boats prop too easily, and they could not cut the lines free easily.I gave up with them.

nixmatters
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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby nixmatters » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:55 pm

t_huebs wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:35 am

Posted this elsewhere but issue wasn’t really with sewing.
That's what you mean?
I've seen it on RRD lines which have the same construction as Q-power but are made in Europe and was wondering what is the cause for this.
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t_huebs
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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby t_huebs » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:53 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:55 pm
That's what you mean?
I've seen it on RRD lines which have the same construction as Q-power but are made in Europe and was wondering what is the cause for this.
I think it's that the stiffness of the sewn loop creates a wear point right at the end of the termination. It's basically the same effect as not tapering splices but amplified a bunch.

Foil
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lake Como (Italy)
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101cm and 91cm SABMoses wood core masts
Moses- 633 and 679 front wings/483stab on 701 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V4 foil kite 11mtr, red
Duotone click bar 2020, my own custom made lines
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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby Foil » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 am

that looks like the bunch of super fine core filaments hidden inside the protective jacket has pushed its way past the cut exposed end of the Qline, if the end has not been sealed neatly then that fluffy ball appears after using for a while, i have loads of Qline In my line workshop and many ends look like that when used over long periods for various jobs that I do with them, no big deal as long as its just at the end of a line after a termination joint, a red hot knife will tidy it off, unless it's a protruding filament ball that has weeped out of a damaged core cover on the working part of the line, then it's time to replace or cut back and repair.

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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby elguapo » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:36 am

i prefer riding strapless (some..but limited jumping)

pigtails attached to racing lines(ozone to be precise) on lightweight carbon bars serve my purpose well.

lightweight...relatively cleap.. and highly functionable.

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Re: Lineset Recommendations

Postby Trent hink » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:55 am

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:03 pm
t_huebs wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:39 pm
I'm off Q-power after the cover died and the core was exposed right at the base of a sewn termination, after not much use foiling. I was thinking about trying the knots just to see but after watching the pull tests, I think I'm going to skip it. Watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b16Z0YzsfeU
The key to maintaining strength at sleeved sewn loops is to wet the line first.

Most kiters know that a child's kite flown on cotton string will cut right through your dyneema kite line. The strength critical temp for dyneema is around 150⁰F (66⁰C). Its melting temp is 277⁰F (136⁰C). The friction of the cotton line going over kite lines will cut right through dyneema by either melting it or reducing its strength under load.

The needle and Nylon or Dacron thread of a fast moving sewing machine will do the same. By wetting the dyneema, and even the thread, you can avoid cutting the inner strands with friction heat.

No factory would ever go to these lengths to ensure full strength of the splice loop. This attention to detail is something that you can only get by building the lineset yourself.
Is this for real?

I'm bit ashamed to say it, but it does not match up with my personal experience.

The child's string broke almost instantly, and I was horribly embarrassed, worse yet, the kite had been left unattended tied to a beach chair, and I couldn't figure out who to apologize to, or if indeed anyone noticed at all.


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