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Core Kite with Low V Bar

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evan
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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby evan » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:01 am

Kiterisland wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:48 am
Gestalt wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:23 am
I hooked up a low-v bar (north control bar) to my xr6 for a session once and I found to my surprise it changed the feel of flying the kite quite a bit. The steering was far more "direct" and the usual "springiness" on the steering lines I have grown to love on the core kite/bar was was almost completely gone.

So yes it is possible to fly the core kite with Low-v, it does work....., but It seems to to defeat one of the primary flying design characteristics of the kite.
I think the difference you are feeling is from the type of lines, not where the split is located.
Couldn't it be also from the bar stick itself? Those plastic thin bars are extremely bendy compared to the solid aluminum bars most other brands use.

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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby Onda » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:25 am

I ride my Core Sections (5 and 7 m²) with a Cabrinha bar. Works just fine for me. However, I can´t compare with the original Core bar (never tested it).
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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby Gestalt » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:24 pm

evan wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:01 am
Kiterisland wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:48 am
Gestalt wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:23 am
I hooked up a low-v bar (north control bar) to my xr6 for a session once and I found to my surprise it changed the feel of flying the kite quite a bit. The steering was far more "direct" and the usual "springiness" on the steering lines I have grown to love on the core kite/bar was was almost completely gone.

So yes it is possible to fly the core kite with Low-v, it does work....., but It seems to to defeat one of the primary flying design characteristics of the kite.
I think the difference you are feeling is from the type of lines, not where the split is located.
Couldn't it be also from the bar stick itself? Those plastic thin bars are extremely bendy compared to the solid aluminum bars most other brands use.
I don't know guys.

Are you suggesting that the Core Sensor Pro 3 Bar with TECTANIUM® VARIO "no stretch" LINES are going to be that different compared to the North Navigator Control System 2021 with Premium 100% Dyneema SK99 flying lines?

The Core Sensor Pro 3 Bar is not "bendy" nor made out of plastic it's carbon fiber with a titanium core.

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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby evan » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:34 pm

Try grabbing a normal sensor 2 bar, those are not stiff at all.

The liros lines they use shouldn't be stretchy at all, that is why I was suggesting it could be flexible bar stick. The pro bars are way stiffer and more expensive.

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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby nixmatters » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:53 pm

Gestalt wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:24 pm
evan wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:01 am
Kiterisland wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:48 am

I think the difference you are feeling is from the type of lines, not where the split is located.
Couldn't it be also from the bar stick itself? Those plastic thin bars are extremely bendy compared to the solid aluminum bars most other brands use.
I don't know guys.

Are you suggesting that the Core Sensor Pro 3 Bar with TECTANIUM® VARIO "no stretch" LINES are going to be that different compared to the North Navigator Control System 2021 with Premium 100% Dyneema SK99 flying lines?

The Core Sensor Pro 3 Bar is not "bendy" nor made out of plastic it's carbon fiber with a titanium core.
The Core Tectanium and North Navigator lines are same. Just different colours.

My explanation is that a low V bar puts more tension on the inner segments of the lower bridle cascade, this way shifting the tow point upwards. Similar to what the 3 connection points on the LE do. But I don't think playing with them can help much.
Screenshot_20210414_003641_edit_1097418406482024.jpg
SUPER DIREKT must be a very German thing so they didn't spell it in English :lol:
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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby Kiterisland » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:13 am

nixmatters wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:53 pm
Gestalt wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:24 pm
evan wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:01 am

Couldn't it be also from the bar stick itself? Those plastic thin bars are extremely bendy compared to the solid aluminum bars most other brands use.
I don't know guys.

Are you suggesting that the Core Sensor Pro 3 Bar with TECTANIUM® VARIO "no stretch" LINES are going to be that different compared to the North Navigator Control System 2021 with Premium 100% Dyneema SK99 flying lines?

The Core Sensor Pro 3 Bar is not "bendy" nor made out of plastic it's carbon fiber with a titanium core.
The Core Tectanium and North Navigator lines are same. Just different colours.

My explanation is that a low V bar puts more tension on the inner segments of the lower bridle cascade, this way shifting the tow point upwards. Similar to what the 3 connection points on the LE do. But I don't think playing with them can help much.
Screenshot_20210414_003641_edit_1097418406482024.jpg

SUPER DIREKT must be a very German thing so they didn't spell it in English :lol:
With three pulleys there is no extra tension on any one spot as it automatically equalizes. However the angle could affect it. Like I mentioned pf sits on e1 4.5mm towards the wingtip changing the angle of pull ever so slightly. The same as if you had the core bar with 3m line extensions.
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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby Delta99 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:26 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:48 pm
Rode XR on low V bar and it worked just fine. High Y is unsafe
Could you expand on this a bit? Why is it unsafe? In general or this specific bar? I only have low Y but I would like to understand for future reference. Thanks!

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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby Delta99 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:37 pm

SMJ wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:55 pm
Gestalt wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:23 am
I hooked up a low-v bar (north control bar) to my xr6 for a session once and I found to my surprise it changed the feel of flying the kite quite a bit. The steering was far more "direct" and the usual "springiness" on the steering lines I have grown to love on the core kite/bar was was almost completely gone.

So yes it is possible to fly the core kite with Low-v, it does work....., but It seems to to defeat one of the primary flying design characteristics of the kite.
I have to agree with Gestalt. I also gave it the old college try with a Cabrinha low-V bar with a Duotone V-Distributor and had mixed results. When you fly a Core kite on a Core bar it's just different - smoother, less lurchy, softer bar feel - like driving a Cadillac. I've come to the painful realization that the best way to fly Core kites is with their bars - and they are excellent bars - but quite expensive.

Another (rather large) benefit that is often overlooked with the Core bar is the 50% depower system when flagging the kite which loads the safety line 100% and the opposite front line 50%. Flying alone and self-landing by activating safety has never been easier than with the Core bars. The kite flops to the water perfectly in the storage position - no fighting with upside-down smiley-face kites while reeling in the lines. Core nailed this one - makes self-rescue a breeze.
Wow, so the Core bar with high Y is easier to self land? Amazing, thought it was the opposite. Could you please explain again how they solved that. Is it the same on Duotone?

I've always stayed away from all brands high Y since I have to self launch and land a lot. In between trees, rocks, shrubs and jetties, in gusty winds... (Yeez, guys if you only knew half about how dangerous the spots are up here. We have kites in trees every week.)

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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby SMJ » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:34 pm

Delta99 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:37 pm
Wow, so the Core bar with high Y is easier to self land? Amazing, thought it was the opposite. Could you please explain again how they solved that. Is it the same on Duotone?

I've always stayed away from all brands high Y since I have to self launch and land a lot. In between trees, rocks, shrubs and jetties, in gusty winds... (Yeez, guys if you only knew half about how dangerous the spots are up here. We have kites in trees every week.)
Hi Delta99,

I wouldn't make the generalized statement that it's easier to self land with the Core High-Y. What I said was it's easier to self land when using the safety system. One advantage to Low-V bars is you can grab the upper front line and pull the kite into the storage position upon landing the kite on the beach. I've never tried that technique with my Core bar since the Y split is too far up, plus I don't generally like that landing method due to potential damage to the kite. When I self-land I either flag the kite on the water or use an anchor.

To answer your other question (how Core solved the 50% loading) is much more difficult without showing you the Core bar in-person. It is not the same as Duotone. You can download the user manual from the Core website here: https://corekites-302e.kxcdn.com/_Resou ... -en-fr.pdf

I'll try to explain in words. The two front lines are attached via rings to the flag line that runs to the leash. This means that none of the front lines run the entire distance to the leash like some other bars. Both front lines slide with their rings. This results in one front line being loaded 100% and the other front line being loaded 50% since it slides further. Hopefully that makes some sense; take a look at the manual.

Having the non-saftey front line 50% loaded (whereas most kites this line is 0% loaded) makes the kite flop nicely to the water when flagged.

Hope this helps.
Attachments
CORE_Sensor3_supported-single-frontline-safety-540x857.jpg
Last edited by SMJ on Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Core Kite with Low V Bar

Postby Steve271 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:27 am

So what am I doing wrong?
My XR5s hardly ever land in storage position when I flag out to side in higher winds- (one of our local spots is drift launch only). core kites & core bars.
I usually find myself reeling in an upside down kite that still wants to fly.


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