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best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

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papasmerf
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best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 pm

I am talking very light wind conditions here,, i seem to find myself in them. obviously light wind is subjective to many people but in this case, lightwind means kite is darn close to falling out of the sky if you lose apparent wind and you have to pull/pump front lines to keep it flying

as far as front wing foils go,,, right now , i am mainly using the north sonar 1150 and their surf wing, the sonar 1650.

i have noticed that the 1150 will obviously go a bit faster, and if don't make any mistakes while turning, i can keep my speed up and the apparent wing will keep my kite flying,, but during a toeside carving gybe,, if i make a mistake,,, in super light wind,, the kite will fall (but not completely does not go in water) and there is so little power in the kite now that looping and swooping and trying everything,, it is very challenging to get started again

so at this point (after i make it back to shore) i will switch to the 1650,, and it does help in the light wind,, i can get up easier and it doesn't stall at lower speeds, which is good cause the kite is not making that much power,,,but even though i think it helps, i seem to be running into the problem of getting speed for a gybe,,or rather keeping speed thru a carve, i think due to the drag of the big thick wing.

the kite does not make a lot of power doing a downwind gybe in very light wind, so the big thick surf wing kind of drags the speed down thruout the turn. if i could keep more acquired speed up during the turn, i could catch the kite easier when i got on the new tack and put some tension on the lines and then easily build up some apparent wind and keep going.

what have others with more experience than me have found as far as best all round front foil wings for very, very, lightwind? i'm about 85kg, 195 ish lbs. as far as most usable size, low aspect, medium, high? if i get a thin wing that slices thru water and has no drag,, am i giving up the low speed stall?

for these conditions, very light wind,, i am on flat water, inland lake,,, staying pretty close to shore because one mistake and it's a sucky float, swim in since about zero chance of relaunch

apologies for double posting but i am going to post this in foil kites category as well since very light wind essentially requires a foil kite

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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby neilhapgood » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:49 pm

this may not help but I started with a 1000cm wind but found it so nerve wracking trying to keep the kite flying and stay on the foil that I switched to using a 510cm freerace type wing so once going the apprentent would come up and I could relax more and enjoy, like you staying close to the shore but doing long runs. I don't find it much harder to get the 510cm wing on the foil as a bigger one as the 12m soul I have will give enough of an initial surge.

However my technique is fairly poor so its likely a better rider can milk far lower winds with a big wing

Like I said probably not much help!
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papasmerf
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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:15 pm

neilhapgood wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:49 pm
this may not help but I started with a 1000cm wind but found it so nerve wracking trying to keep the kite flying and stay on the foil that I switched to using a 510cm freerace type wing so once going the apprentent would come up and I could relax more and enjoy, like you staying close to the shore but doing long runs. I don't find it much harder to get the 510cm wing on the foil as a bigger one as the 12m soul I have will give enough of an initial surge.

However my technique is fairly poor so its likely a better rider can milk far lower winds with a big wing

Like I said probably not much help!
At my local spot, doing long reaches is not as practical/safe as I would like it to be, so I tend to do a lot of turns, with me it is really during the turns that The light wind becomes a factor. I am not on a long nice beach with onShore winds. (I’m not saying you are either, I’m just describing my spot)), I’m just saying my wind is generally side shore So making a mistake in very light wind in the turn which is a long way from shore, would be problematic, as well as my shore is very rocky cliff like and hilly With no road access, other than a small launch spot.

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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby neilhapgood » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:37 pm

papasmerf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:15 pm
neilhapgood wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:49 pm
this may not help but I started with a 1000cm wind but found it so nerve wracking trying to keep the kite flying and stay on the foil that I switched to using a 510cm freerace type wing so once going the apprentent would come up and I could relax more and enjoy, like you staying close to the shore but doing long runs. I don't find it much harder to get the 510cm wing on the foil as a bigger one as the 12m soul I have will give enough of an initial surge.

However my technique is fairly poor so its likely a better rider can milk far lower winds with a big wing

Like I said probably not much help!
At my local spot, doing long reaches is not as practical/safe as I would like it to be, so I tend to do a lot of turns, with me it is really during the turns that The light wind becomes a factor. I am not on a long nice beach with onShore winds. (I’m not saying you are either, I’m just describing my spot)), I’m just saying my wind is generally side shore So making a mistake in very light wind in the turn which is a long way from shore, would be problematic, as well as my shore is very rocky cliff like and hilly With no road access, other than a small launch spot.
Thats interesting thanks, in that case a smaller wing and more apparent won't be of much use! Best of luck finding something that works for you

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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby nixmatters » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:13 pm

papasmerf,

I think you should first check if you can upgrade your quiver with another front wing and then look at other options - looks like 1500R or HA1250/1450 might do the job
Toby wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:59 am
North News:

SONAR FOILS 
Race-foil design guru George Hradil and former America's Cup marine engineer, Uli Sommerlatt, have developed a completely new reflexed hydrofoil technology. The all-new reflexed camber line 1500R, 1850R, and 2200R carbon front wings are phenomenal across all disciplines. Not only stable and controllable, but they also have an incredible speed range. They can get going at very low speeds and also enable comfortable high-speed riding.   
  
Hradil says the reflexed foil section makes the hydrofoil easier to ride: "A reflexed airfoil is concaved downward at the front then the trailing edge is orientated slightly upward. That means this trailing edge doesn't create any lift at the back of the airfoil. In fact, there's a localised downforce on the wing's trailing edge, which acts as a stabilizer would. So, in essence, when you use a reflexed airfoil, it's like you've built a mini-stabilizer into the back edge of the wing."  
   
The new High Aspect HA1250 and HA1450 Front Wings are most efficient for wingfoiling, with the highest lift, pumpability and windward performance.   
  
These, and the smaller Sonar front wings, mix and match within the extensive Sonar Modular Foil System, to which we've introduced new CF Carbon Editions and AF Foil Editions specifically designed for higher loads. Each component within the Sonar Foil System is interchangeable and compatible, allowing riders to build their custom quiver specific to any foil discipline.   


Gunnar, you have surely tested the new wings. What's your take on this? Cheers
gmb13 wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:49 pm

Center Chord of the HA1450 is 172mm. Simple AR is 7.6
--
Gunnar

papasmerf
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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:41 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:13 pm
papasmerf,

I think you should first check if you can upgrade your quiver with another front wing and then look at other options - looks like 1500R or HA1250/1450 might do the job
Toby wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:59 am
North News:

SONAR FOILS 
Race-foil design guru George Hradil and former America's Cup marine engineer, Uli Sommerlatt, have developed a completely new reflexed hydrofoil technology. The all-new reflexed camber line 1500R, 1850R, and 2200R carbon front wings are phenomenal across all disciplines. Not only stable and controllable, but they also have an incredible speed range. They can get going at very low speeds and also enable comfortable high-speed riding.   
  
Hradil says the reflexed foil section makes the hydrofoil easier to ride: "A reflexed airfoil is concaved downward at the front then the trailing edge is orientated slightly upward. That means this trailing edge doesn't create any lift at the back of the airfoil. In fact, there's a localised downforce on the wing's trailing edge, which acts as a stabilizer would. So, in essence, when you use a reflexed airfoil, it's like you've built a mini-stabilizer into the back edge of the wing."  
   
The new High Aspect HA1250 and HA1450 Front Wings are most efficient for wingfoiling, with the highest lift, pumpability and windward performance.   
  
These, and the smaller Sonar front wings, mix and match within the extensive Sonar Modular Foil System, to which we've introduced new CF Carbon Editions and AF Foil Editions specifically designed for higher loads. Each component within the Sonar Foil System is interchangeable and compatible, allowing riders to build their custom quiver specific to any foil discipline.   


Gunnar, you have surely tested the new wings. What's your take on this? Cheers
gmb13 wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:49 pm

Center Chord of the HA1450 is 172mm. Simple AR is 7.6
--
yes, but which one,,,one is mid to low aspect and the other is high

just getting other folks's opinion on what they found to owrk the best for that purpose.

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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:11 am

A reasonably big, high AR wing will be the best.
Such wing will have loads of lift, and reasonably apparent wind and fun.

For the average weight i would say at least 1000 maybe even 12 or 1300 cm2.

Apparent wind does not help too much, as it is the ability to get up foiling, and even more important, to be able to jibe without dropping.

And if you do the latter, to be able to get up foiling again easy.

You won't go crazy fast no, but you have a lot more margin, and amazing upwind angles.

Kite type is not as important with such a wing.
But kite will be important regarding the ability to waterstart.

If you have high aspect max peak power race like kites, a tad smaller thus faster wings works great.
If using everything else, bigger but still high aspect wings works way better, IMO.

8) Peter
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geron
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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby geron » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:16 pm

That integrated stab sounds intreaging

papasmerf
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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby papasmerf » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:25 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:11 am
A reasonably big, high AR wing will be the best.
Such wing will have loads of lift, and reasonably apparent wind and fun.

For the average weight i would say at least 1000 maybe even 12 or 1300 cm2.

Apparent wind does not help too much, as it is the ability to get up foiling, and even more important, to be able to jibe without dropping.

And if you do the latter, to be able to get up foiling again easy.

You won't go crazy fast no, but you have a lot more margin, and amazing upwind angles.

Kite type is not as important with such a wing.
But kite will be important regarding the ability to waterstart.

If you have high aspect max peak power race like kites, a tad smaller thus faster wings works great.
If using everything else, bigger but still high aspect wings works way better, IMO.

8) Peter
hi peter

when you say "you won't go crazy fast" is that because of the wing being "large" comparitively speaking. the high aspect wings are meant to go fast, right? so i just want to be clear that you mean that the larger surface area high aspect wings wont' go as crazy fast as the smaller high aspect wings?

i assume the trade off for using a high aspect is giving up some fast turning capibilities?

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Re: best type of front wing for very light wind conditions for kiting

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:30 pm

Yes


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