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best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

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papasmerf
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best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:16 pm

I am talking very light wind conditions here,, i seem to find myself in them. i really don't want to get into a big arguement about what is lightwind.,,,obviously light wind is subjective to many people but in this case, lightwind means kite is darn close to falling out of the sky if you lose apparent wind and you have to pull/pump front lines to keep it flying

as far as front wing foils go,,, right now , i am mainly using the north sonar 1150 and their surf wing, the sonar 1650.

i have noticed that the 1150 will obviously go a bit faster, and if don't make any mistakes while turning, i can keep my speed up and the apparent wing will keep my kite flying,, but during a toeside carving gybe,, if i make a mistake,,, in super light wind,, the kite will fall out (but not completely on water) and there is so little power in the kite now that loopoing and swooping and trying everything,, it can be very challenging to get up and riding again
so at this point, assuming i get to shore, i will switch to the 1650,, and it does help in the light wind,, i can get up easier and it doesn't stall at lower speeds, which is good cause the kite is not making that much power,,,but even though i think it helps, i seem to be running into the problem of getting speed for a gybe,,or rather keeping speed thru a carve.

the kite does not make a lot of power doing a downwind gybe in very light wind, so the big thick surf wing kind of drags the speed down thruout the turn. if i could keep more acquired speed up during the turn, i could catch the kite easier when i got on the new tack and put some tension on the lines and then easily build up some apparent wind and keep going.

what have others with more experience than me have found as far as best all round front foil wings for very, very, lightwind? assuming a competent kiter UL kite,, about 195 lbs, 86kgs, what is max size of wing before getting ridiculously big,, what is best aspect? low aspect, medium, high? low seems to provide more lift, yet high will slice and go faster. if i get a thin wing that slices thru water and has no drag,, am i giving up the low speed stall?

for these conditions, very light wind,, i am on flat water, inland lake,,, staying pretty close to shore because one mistake and it's a sucky float, swim in since about zero chance of relaunch

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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby neilhapgood » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:47 pm

this may not help but I started with a 1000cm wind but found it so nerve wracking trying to keep the kite flying and stay on the foil that I switched to using a 510cm freerace type wing so once going the apprentent would come up and I could relax more and enjoy, like you staying close to the shore but doing long runs. I don't find it much harder to get the 510cm wing on the foil as a bigger one as the 12m soul I have will give enough of an initial surge.

However my technique is fairly poor so its likely a better rider can milk far lower winds with a big wing

Like I said probably not much help!
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airsail
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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby airsail » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:35 pm

Most in our area are going to around 1000 sqcm wing but very thin, think 10mm. Gives you the area to get up and going in the light but not the drag of a thick wing. A lot of fun hitting 20knots + in smooth water conditions and carving gybes.
I’m using the old Lift Albatross wing, very thin and just over 800 sqcm.

papasmerf
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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:34 pm

airsail wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:35 pm
Most in our area are going to around 1000 sqcm wing but very thin, think 10mm. Gives you the area to get up and going in the light but not the drag of a thick wing. A lot of fun hitting 20knots + in smooth water conditions and carving gybes.
I’m using the old Lift Albatross wing, very thin and just over 800 sqcm.
would you say it is a low, mid, or high aspect?

i can't find much info on it

airsail
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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby airsail » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:07 am

papasmerf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:34 pm
airsail wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:35 pm
Most in our area are going to around 1000 sqcm wing but very thin, think 10mm. Gives you the area to get up and going in the light but not the drag of a thick wing. A lot of fun hitting 20knots + in smooth water conditions and carving gybes.
I’m using the old Lift Albatross wing, very thin and just over 800 sqcm.
would you say it is a low, mid, or high aspect?

It’s medium aspect, and there is bugger all online about it. Any of the thin HA wings like the Moses 800 would work well. I do have a race foil but the small front wing needs tacks and gybes to be perfect in the light stuff, and mine aren’t.
Plus in the light stuff I stay close to shore, just in case the wind drops a couple of knots. A race foil is just too fast, more an offshore thing.

i can't find much info on it
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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby norcom » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:03 am

I’m riding a GL240, GL210 and M280 with a 6m Peak 4. I can ride in LIGHT wind. :D Though I don’t use the M280 as much anymore. The thinner wings have better glide once going but the thick wing can ride much slower.
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Tomlutz
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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby Tomlutz » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:07 am

papasmerf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:16 pm

what have others with more experience than me have found as far as best all round front foil wings for very, very, lightwind? assuming a competent kiter UL kite,, about 195 lbs, 86kgs, what is max size of wing before getting ridiculously big,, what is best aspect? low aspect, medium, high? low seems to provide more lift, yet high will slice and go faster.
A topic that I was also thinking of a lot. As a beginner I have a big Moses Onda wing, low aspect. I can get going in 4/5 knots with a huge UL foilkite (Concept Air Pulsion 18). However, the much more advanced kiters have smaller kites with higher AR, and small race front wings, and they can get going even in 3/4 knots of wind. I am sure that the smaller kites are faster turning, create more apparant wind, and the faster front wings helps to maintain the apparent wind, whereas I have the feeling the big front wing I have is too slow and I am not able to create enough apparent wind. - Tom

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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby jakemoore » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:02 pm

Maybe a technique issue more than wing? I would look at Reigis de Geins pulsion topics and find vids where he shows a pivot gybe. Downwind carves at the limit of kite flying are naturally going to kill power in the kite.

Also long lines help light wind gybe and water start but make tacks more difficult for me. 28 m plus. Also one thing that helps me is to move the kite deeper in the window with a loop or a back stall before attempting the gybe. A second loop is then made during the gybe.

On topic: I am finding myself amazed with the Moses W1000. At the limit of getting my body out of the water on 2 or 3 loops of kite power and I just crank up wind at silly angles. Gybes have to be on point with this wing in light air and maybe tacks are a safer choice even going downwind.

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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:07 pm

Tomlutz wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:07 am
papasmerf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:16 pm

what have others with more experience than me have found as far as best all round front foil wings for very, very, lightwind? assuming a competent kiter UL kite,, about 195 lbs, 86kgs, what is max size of wing before getting ridiculously big,, what is best aspect? low aspect, medium, high? low seems to provide more lift, yet high will slice and go faster.
A topic that I was also thinking of a lot. As a beginner I have a big Moses Onda wing, low aspect. I can get going in 4/5 knots with a huge UL foilkite (Concept Air Pulsion 18). However, the much more advanced kiters have smaller kites with higher AR, and small race front wings, and they can get going even in 3/4 knots of wind. I am sure that the smaller kites are faster turning, create more apparant wind, and the faster front wings helps to maintain the apparent wind, whereas I have the feeling the big front wing I have is too slow and I am not able to create enough apparent wind. - Tom

True, eventhough these racekites are not smaller, some are 24 m2 now, and 19 or 21 m2 the standard light wind size (here), and turns a lot worse even IF smaller.

Racekiters got the very best kites in terms of either peak power, if not too big, or apparent wind power, if big kites.
So once up, and the wing is not too slow, you can ride on a lot longer than where you can start, thus the 3-4 knots (not possible for them to start in this)
The downside is, and the reason why many got long swims, that if you "speed" into lower wind, and it does not come up again, you are toast, and kite goes down, when you try to jibe - if too low wind, even if not failing your jibe.

Whereas kites like the Pulsion hangs better and turn better, and does not collapse so can be "held flying" easier - but it lacks the race kite peak power and not the same gain in apparent wind power either.

So a tradeoff - impossible to say what is best, as very individual and also depending on the wing, and your "way" of riding, racestyle downlooping in jibes, or freeride jibing slower and tighter.

One thing though, not used by racers: LONG lines, makes a h... of a difference in how low you can go, no matter which kite :thumb:

8) Peter
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Re: best front foil wing for very light wind kiting

Postby Slappysan » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:22 am

If the question is simply "how low can you go?" then it's probably some gigantor 2600 sqcm wing, but it'll probably suck.

I would imagine that wings like the Axis PNG series would be some of the most fun wings that could also go really low.


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