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Symmetric Wing

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skerrj
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Symmetric Wing

Postby skerrj » Thu May 13, 2021 4:30 pm

Has anyone thought of developing a symmetric wing?

It seems like when jibbing the wing can get stuck.... Or maybe you're just running into it... Which made me think of jibbing a windsurfer

What if the inflatable wing was symmetric... Sort of like a windsurfing sail (at least in one dimension)... So the handles are on both sides of the wing's sail

You could transition the same way you do with the current wings but back winding might be better... And also let the wing rotate like sail in a windsurfer jibe...

I guess for inflatable booms getting the wing's sail to luff to the other side would complicate everything... Ok... Dumb idea.. Cheers.... PS I can't wing foil

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby ronnie » Thu May 13, 2021 5:23 pm

Closest thing so far.

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby Eltreato » Thu May 13, 2021 6:11 pm

As a windfoiler one of my favorite things about wingfoiling is the easy wing "spin" in jibes.

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby borist » Thu May 13, 2021 6:26 pm

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Wing getting stuck during a jibe? The most of the windfoilers at our spot can't do a decent jibe even after couple years of foiling. Wingers start jibing after few sessions, some during the first one. I don't see a problem

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu May 13, 2021 10:40 pm

Yes, it would be possible, but does not make much sense.

Just like a symmetrical foil that can ride both ways, yes it works to some degree, but performance is ridiculous and worth nothing, and you also lose the appeal of riding low drag effortless and carving, which IMO is one of the major appeals of any directional.

But you CAN ride clew first with a wing if you like, so I think it is much better to have a relatively efficient wing instead of a symmetrical one.

"Carving is Life" is my mantra, that goes for both windsurfing and kitesurfing and wingfoiling - carving around on a directional and changing side of the sail and kite and wing, is one of the really enjoyable things in life :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby bragnouff » Thu May 13, 2021 11:19 pm

it's already symmetrical in a way, as the top and bottom halves are same. It's that symmetry that allows to have only one "user side". Adding another level of symmetry to have two "user sides", would provide little benefits, if any (I can't really imagine any myself), with lots of extra complexity in terms of profile rotating (swapping intrados for extrados), which is not something super compatible with the inflated leading edge / canopy that we're familiar with. It works for windsurf sails though, so maybe more achievable with the hard original kitewings, if that path was to be explored. It'd require a full windsurf boom, or something similar in function. Double the weight...
Add to that the management of the dihedral aspect present in every wing to some degree, and you end up with a complex design challenge that doesn't really address an existing problem.

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby fluidity » Fri May 14, 2021 6:18 am

It certainly could be done, even to the point of giving it symmetry in any of X, Y and Z axis but there are significant compromises to efficiency that would make the wing under perform in both speed and power. Maybe a wing for competition tricks but not much market otherwise.
I'd put front and back skins on it, corner outlet air flap valves to let out accidentally trapped water and the worst part, even designing for camber reversal depending on the side it's held, leading edge=trailing edge shape is a bad idea. Trailing edge should provide a clean parting line, leading edge should be rounded to encourage airflow to cling in Coanda effect. Design to modify this depending on side it's held, position of hands could be done based on pressure and large bore-low pressure pnumatics could be used to correct leading and trailing edge shapes through connected edge soft chambers but it would add a bit to weight, a lot to complexity and make repairs even harder.
*Save my above disclosure to challenge the novelty of any idiot trying to patent my ideas as theirs!* :lol:

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby ronnie » Fri May 14, 2021 7:09 am

Another symmetric inflatable power wing. It does show that efficiency does not go with symmetry.


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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri May 14, 2021 8:53 am

Ha haa :rollgrin:

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Re: Symmetric Wing

Postby ronnie » Sat May 15, 2021 11:20 am

I don't think symmetry is ever going to be efficient enough to be worth having.

One new design that might be worth developing might be a auto-zenith wing. One that flies overhead&downwind on the leash, so it remains in the air if there is sufficient wind, until you pull it down to use it for power or to flag it out at minimum power on the front handle.
That way, it follows you as you paddle out through shorebreak, or remains overhead if you can let it, while being tumbled in white water.

This is an auto-zenith kite, which might be working via a weight at the end of the tail, which tends to keep the nose of the kite pointing slightly upward?


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