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30 year old woman missing in Argentina

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ieism
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby ieism » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:37 am

We've had this entire discussion with avalanche beacons in the 80's too. People said they don't work, and that it would just induce risk taking and bring kooks to the backcountry.
Now it's almost unheard of in Europe to go without one, and many people take airbags and helmets too.

Is it perfect? No, I've lost friends who wore one over the years. But I also resqued people who otherwise would have died with it. So for me it's simple.

It sometimes takes a decade or two for the non believers and technology to catch up. An avalanche beacon is a very crude device that is much more difficult to operate and use than a PLB.

I don't tell people what to do, there needs to be some room for natural selection... But it's good to think about these things sometimes, and smart people will be able to determine if they should or should not use a device in some conditions.

I'm with Billie on this one. If you've seen some shit and have some experience with bad stuff (almost) happening in sports or adventures, it's a nobrainer. If you're arguing the opposite, you're not the kind of person I'm trying to convince anyway. Do what you like.
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Bille (Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:02 pm) • iriejohn (Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:50 am)
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OzBungy
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby OzBungy » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:51 am

I'm not a fan of the PLB. It sits there and does nothing for years and then you throw it away and get a new one. It only works if you press the button. Even the compact ones are a but bulky.

I used SPOT and Inreach for years. They're both pretty good. The Inreach possibly better. I was able to call in retrieve during a paragliding competition from an area with no mobile phone coverage. Also able to send text messages home while bivouac flying in India. You need a subscription and they're expensive. The units are a bit bulky and not convenient for every day kiteboarding use.

For a while I used an Apple watch for urban kiteboarding adventures. Friends and family could locate me any time they wanted. I could ring them up and chat. It was very convenient and cheap to use. I gave up with the Apple watch after the third one died. They're just not tough enough for everyday kiteboarding, even for a foiler who stays high and dry on the foil and rarely crashes. There's rumours of a tough Apple watch coming out in the future.

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:40 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:51 am
I'm not a fan of the PLB. It sits there and does nothing for years and then you throw it away and get a new one. It only works if you press the button.
The goal of this type of PPE is to never use it. When you throw it away, it should be a celebration that you have avoided ever activating it.

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:04 pm

Sarda wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:50 am
Are you aware of "Heirarchy of risk/control"?

Obviously not!
You seem to be a bit unclear on this concept. For our readers interested in the answer to your questions, the "Hierarchy of risk/control" works like this:

If you solve 50% of 10% of your safety problem, you would decrease incidents by only 5%.

If solve 50% of 50% of your safety problem, you would decrease incidents by 25%.

However the above concept isn't really applicable here. Sara, you are trying to apply institutional controls to an individual situation. In the work place, individuals take their orders from the workplace hierarchy. This means that those most at risk are taking orders from above.

In kiting, there is no institutional hierarchy set policy to be followed. Safety is the result of personal responsibility, not some broadly applied and enforced regulation system.

This is the main reason your entire take on this issue is worthless as far as saving lives and staying safe - You have been "institutionalized" to the point where you cannot even see the applicability of policy to which you claim to have an understanding.

And in the end, this is demonstrably less safe than even lax precautions.

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby PullStrings » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 pm

Sarda wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:50 am
Hey Matteo the 5th
Is it true you live in a van? What make and model?
:thumb:

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Sarda » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:44 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:04 pm
Sarda wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:50 am
Are you aware of "Heirarchy of risk/control"?

Obviously not!
You seem to be a bit unclear on this concept. For our readers interested in the answer to your questions, the "Hierarchy of risk/control" works like this:

If you solve 50% of 10% of your safety problem, you would decrease incidents by only 5%.

If solve 50% of 50% of your safety problem, you would decrease incidents by 25%.

However the above concept isn't really applicable here. Sara, you are trying to apply institutional controls to an individual situation. In the work place, individuals take their orders from the workplace hierarchy. This means that those most at risk are taking orders from above.

In kiting, there is no institutional hierarchy set policy to be followed. Safety is the result of personal responsibility, not some broadly applied and enforced regulation system.

This is the main reason your entire take on this issue is worthless as far as saving lives and staying safe - You have been "institutionalized" to the point where you cannot even see the applicability of policy to which you claim to have an understanding.

And in the end, this is demonstrably less safe than even lax precautions.

As I said "obviously not"

It is also now obvious you are not aware of its background, understand it or how to apply it?

Hit rock bottom, still digging?


Ask the kite "safety guy" on the forum. He should know off the bat, and the answers?

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:24 pm

Sarda wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:44 pm
As I said "obviously not"

It is also now obvious you are not aware of its background, understand it or how to apply it?

Hit rock bottom, still digging?


Ask the kite "safety guy" on the forum. He should know off the bat, and the answers?
That doesn't even make sense.

And to the ESL usere in the forum, posing questions as answers is not how a debate works - at least not in English. Sarda is hiding behind this, without any regard for how bad it makes Sarda look to "English as first language" users, and without any regard for how it confuses "English as Second Language" forum users.

Sarda, do you have a point you are trying to make, or are you only asking questions? And here's a little hint.....your point wont have a question mark at the end of it. And if it does have a question mark at the end in the rare case where it is justified, your response to a request for clarification WON'T HAVE A QUESTION MARK AT THE END OF IT!

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Bille » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:28 pm

*
Last edited by Bille on Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby supachip1 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:18 am

is she found ? post seem to be turning to arguing and opinions as usual

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Dave_5280 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:25 am

supachip1 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:18 am
is she found ? post seem to be turning to arguing and opinions as usual
No, they haven’t found Victoria Pardo.


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