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What influences going upwind

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ieism
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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby ieism » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:05 am

On a Peak 4 11m, probably one of the worst kites upwind, I can hang with most riders upwind when I am on my daughters surfboard. That's a Simmons with straight rails and no rocker.
On my own surfboard, low volume and lots of rocket I struggle to stay upwind in light conditions.

On a foil, yeah not really an issue there..

So I think the board makes a massive difference.
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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby Aberdovy kiter » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:44 am

Havre wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:53 am
Aberdovy kiter wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:07 am
Havre wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:20 pm
I never been on a Hyper, but as Faxie says I would expect those to be excellent for upwind riding.

When he was on the Lithium he was better at going upwind than now?
He definitely noticed that going upwind on the hyper seems to be harder, like I said he changed boards at around the same time, i know from my own experience changing from north rebels to the evo's i found going upwind much easier using the same board that's why I tend to think that the kite plays a bigger influence than the board, it's interesting even among the replies on this thread the consensus seems to be split..
I'm not sure if you said that? In any case I see.

You found the Evo better going upwind than the Rebel? Not being sarcastic here, but this seems to be some sort of upside down world you are riding in :D

I don't think you could say which one would matter much. If I were to speculate, I would imagine for the same size the kite with the "worst" upwind ability vs. the "best" kite would have a bigger gap than for boards. However, in your case I would have expected the kite - assuming same sizing - to be better going upwind with the change (that is the Hyper).
Now I'm doubting myself, it was about a year ago i flew the rebels, don't know if it's relevant but my rebels are 2015 and the evo's are 2021, next chance I'll fly them back to back just to see, looking back at the marketing blurb for the rebels they are sold as a upwind machine, but i remember they where quite easy to stall with hard board edging, maybe my board skills work better with the evo's, i find it harder to stall the evo's with harder board edging..

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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby Havre » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:01 am

Aberdovy kiter wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:44 am
Havre wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:53 am
Aberdovy kiter wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:07 am


He definitely noticed that going upwind on the hyper seems to be harder, like I said he changed boards at around the same time, i know from my own experience changing from north rebels to the evo's i found going upwind much easier using the same board that's why I tend to think that the kite plays a bigger influence than the board, it's interesting even among the replies on this thread the consensus seems to be split..
I'm not sure if you said that? In any case I see.

You found the Evo better going upwind than the Rebel? Not being sarcastic here, but this seems to be some sort of upside down world you are riding in :D

I don't think you could say which one would matter much. If I were to speculate, I would imagine for the same size the kite with the "worst" upwind ability vs. the "best" kite would have a bigger gap than for boards. However, in your case I would have expected the kite - assuming same sizing - to be better going upwind with the change (that is the Hyper).
Now I'm doubting myself, it was about a year ago i flew the rebels, don't know if it's relevant but my rebels are 2015 and the evo's are 2021, next chance I'll fly them back to back just to see, looking back at the marketing blurb for the rebels they are sold as a upwind machine, but i remember they where quite easy to stall with hard board edging, maybe my board skills work better with the evo's, i find it harder to stall the evo's with harder board edging..
Could be the model change. I haven't got any experience with Rebels across models (many on here do though), but I occasionally borrow my friend's Rebel (2019 I believe - not entirely sure) and that kite is the "best" I have ever ridden in terms of going upwind.

I got Enduros myself (closer to the Evo than the Rebel) - and when I switch from one to the other on the same day it always takes me some time to get used to the Rebel. I couldn't say if that influences my ability to go upwind or not (I haven't been that scientific about it - and they are not the same sizes so wouldn't be that comparable anyway), but I don't think it is unreasonable to maybe assume some riders will fit one kite better than the other. That said even if I'm more used to and probably better at riding the Enduros I would still go much better upwind with the Rebel.

Did he change the size of the board? I have never tried the same board in different sizes back to back, but I just recently went out with my 12m Enduro on a 140x43 board and for the last 15 mins or so of the session I borrowed my friend's 13m Rebel and his board. Not entirely sure what size that board is, but I believe it is 138x41. That is a 6% drop in surface area. Not sure how they would match up othewise (Ronson vs. Code v1), but even with the bigger kite and better upwind kite I wasn't really going upwind any better after the switch. How much was down to the reduced size and how much was down to the kind of board I couldn't tell you. And maybe the wind dropped 1 knots without me knowing it as well - so even if it very much felt like the board played a role I can't say for certain.

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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:35 pm

vakiter wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 am
You could switch rigs part or whole and test rider ability . Best upwind board I have found is or duke or mako , but I only tried a few. Rider weight and ability is big factor , you can tell that when you switch gear.

No, you cant.

It takes months, maybe half a year for some, till you can use a new kite fully in terms of feel and sheeting angle - which as someone said, is very important as it means not too much nor too little speed, and no loss.

Agree with others, board is by far the most important factor yes, then kite.

And to some extent rider ability can be more important than both of above, if not too big gear difference.

8) Peter
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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby Matteo V » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:39 pm

vakiter wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 am
You could switch rigs part or whole and test rider ability . Best upwind board I have found is or duke or mako , but I only tried a few. Rider weight and ability is big factor , you can tell that when you switch gear.
I do agree, and I have done this.

With changing kites kites but on the same board, it's obvious. Though as Peter points out, it takes a while to get a feel for, and reach the full potential, of any unfamiliar kite. Much of this issue is solved with old school foil kite experience on multiple models. But again, Peter's point holds true for your average inflatable kiter.

With changing boards, it can be apparent too. And even the same board with different fins, can show some significant differences. Given the same exact kitesurfboard with 5 boxes, quad vs thruster is kind of an eye-opener as to which is better at upwind.

But the real test is changing riders. That's where you will see the most difference.

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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby Carlos_C » Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:12 pm

I ride Flysurfers mainly and it feels like I'm cheating when it comes to upwind
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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby PullStrings » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:44 pm

I'm a LEI guy.

Borrowed my friend SOUL 21m.

Was going upwind like crazy.

Going close to the foiler's angle.

I'm was already efficient upwind but that was insane.

Lines were from bar to kite 29m (bridle included)

Board was 5'2"" x 21 x 2 3/8 29 L.

74kg

11 knots

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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby JakeFarley » Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:30 pm

Higher aspect kites go upwind much better. With my Speed 5, I can go upwind on my TT much better than LEIs, but not that much less than foilers. I would imagine that the Sonic would be even better.

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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby PullStrings » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:54 pm

ieism wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:05 am
On a Peak 4 11m, probably one of the worst kites upwind, I can hang with most riders upwind when I am on my daughters surfboard. That's a Simmons with straight rails and no rocker.
LEI guy again here.

The kite worst than that is Peak 4 13m at going upwind.

Borrowed form a friend for 2 weeks and had 7 days out on it.

On a dedicated LW quad 5'2" x 21 x 2 3/8 29L

Big waste of pulling power sending you on a downwind angle.

Unless of course the wind is 13 knots & up and the trailing edge starts flapping crazy sheeting out.

It had the Connect bar.

I tested with 3 lines lengths

14+7.........14+3.........14 not extended........( bridle is 5 m )......so bar to kite was 26m......22m.........19m

My clear favorite was with the 3m extensions that i owned....total bar to kite 22m

With 26m it was the worst of the worst at trying to go upwind.

At 19m it was going upwind better but the kite strokes were too short and quick...kite felt bit gutless too.

That 13 Peak is a foilboarding kite or to do downwinders on other type boards.

It does drift very well on waves.....just floats with lines practically slack.

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Re: What influences going upwind

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:40 pm

13m Peak is a snow kite.

Was never designed to pull you upwind on water.
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