Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Forum for wing surfers
AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:42 pm

Hey there ! I live close to beach and I love water sports and I would love to kite, unfortunately I had some struggles past time. I bought equipment (7+9m2) but every time I went to try that I FAILED miserably(from tangling lines, no wind etc). I tried to take course but didn't succeed there too (one session fine, others again wind issue and and then winter)

I also have two issues: bad eyes (need power glasses) and not able to drive (a lot of equipment's)).

Since, I couldnt see kite and its lines due eyes condition I was thinking that WING FOIL would be much better option, and again I FAILED at first attempt.

I bought :
125L Air rocket F-one
Gravity 2200 Foil F-one
Naish S26 5.3m2
--------------

So, first I was thinking that I can move myself in water with just board/foil and me on top of it (like 4km ?) with a paddle/swim to better spot. And it turned out that this is not possible for me (85kg + wetsuit + bagpack) and folded wing in backpack is not actually place on the 125L board.

So, I moved like 100m went out from water and tried to pump the wing. As I tried kite and saw some videos, I put it downwind, leashed it to me and start pumping - and it cached wind and
break the connector of the pump - that plastic thing on the end of pump.

I piece ended in the valve in the wing. I tried to get it out but I believe it actually ended up in the plastic transparent thing inside the wing (I think, I do not see it in the valve anymore)

Any suggestion? Should I tried to take it off (not sure if possible), should I leave it there ? (risk that it make it a hole inside?). Or do I need to do some repair?

--------

Since I broke pump it was over for me I tried to play with the board - 125L, me 85kg and it turned out it is EXTREMELY HARD, I have SUP (160L) no problem, but on the foil I was not able to
even KNEE on the board and paddle. It was changing balance all the time.

Is this a normal thing? With this combination would it be possible to do SUP/paddle and stand up without wing?
Is it possible to foil with this combination by pumping to go up into foiling stage?

Also, my first time on foil - Gravity 2200 + 125L board - what would be the desirable speed to start lifting? I tried paddle by hands while knee/laying on the board and the front went up - foiling effect or just balance thing ?

Sorry for beginners question, but got so sad after walking back today from beach with zero success.

AZOR,
the failed kite-wing guy

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 104kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing.
Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Using my own software for foil design.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby fluidity » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:04 am

The pumps usually have a hook on a very short leash to tether the wing while pumping. I've never heard of any of those pump pieces breaking, was the end on the pump hose that broke?
You will need a bit of power to start foiling. watch wakethief's youtube vids if you want to try bungy launches but it sounds to me like you just need more time learning to control the wing. You're not instantly going to be gybing and jumping like a pro. Probably not even pumping. Learn to control the direction of the board while it's still on the water because you will need all that skill when you lift off. Holding the wing and controlling power with your back hand is big in keeping your ballance.

AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:12 pm

Hi, thank you for the reply :bye: ,

well happened to me, I actually didn't hook the pump to wing as I know from my kite-trying, what a mistake. I already leashed to me/arm so I expected that if some gust happen it will just flag out on my arm, well lesson learn,

Image -- the second from the left, these small pieces at the beginning, I only found one piece in the valve - I tried to take it off but I think instead it off it actually felt inside the transparent inflatable things inside. I guess it is rare problem so hard to google what to do :( I can inflate that but question is what next - should I order some blade inside just in case I have it at home ?

Yeah Iike SUP I assume that it will get more stable once wind and some speed - but I got very surprised how unbalance it is and how almost impossible it is to stand or even try paddle - can/should I try to improve balance even without wing - I mean it is always useful - but with my weight and board - is it expected to be hard/impossible without wing and I should more focus on the wing control first ?

AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:40 pm

Ok, So, today I tried it again :)

Wing seems to be ok - possible to inflate. I went to the water early in the morning - but no wind for me :(

I was lying on the board and trying to move forward towards wind .

I was able to knee and move little with wind - is it possible with light wind , like 2m/s to go against wind ? No matter how I was rotating wing I always ended up going downwind, normal or I am doing something wrong ?

Thank you.

But it was fun :) Except like 2km being on the board and paddling by hands back to beach, lol .

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 104kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing.
Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Using my own software for foil design.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby fluidity » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:49 am

AZOR wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:40 pm
I was able to knee and move little with wind - is it possible with light wind , like 2m/s to go against wind ? No matter how I was rotating wing I always ended up going downwind, normal or I am doing something wrong ?
Azor, you will find it much easier as you build muscle memory but to go up wind you need to control the angle of the wing.
They are designed for foiling, not conventional sub planing craft so you are at a disadvantage in using it. You need some height, to at a very minimum, be able to position the wing behind your shoulder if you want to point up wind and you aren't standing. Onece you are knealing it's easier to get a better angle and standing you have full control. Keep in mind that the rigididity of a purpose designed inflateable or hard wing board will lock your platform to the wing and give you a lot more stability, especially as you pick up speed.

RTL78901
Rare Poster
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:36 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Weight: 141
Local Beach: Atlanta
Favorite Beaches: Various spots at our local lake. OBX and Jekyll Island
Gear: F one Rocket Air, Manta Foil, 5m Wing, Peak 4 5m, Pansh Genesis 3m, 6m, Flexifoil kite buggy, Peter Lynn Kite Monohull kite boat, many self made traction kites including single skin NPW's, single skin foils, close cell foil kites, and my own designs. Various windsurf sails and Exocet RF81 and ISups.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby RTL78901 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:16 pm

AZOR wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:40 pm
Ok, So, today I tried it again :)

Wing seems to be ok - possible to inflate.
Seems to me that if the wing can be inflated the valve must have been intact. If so, then in seems impossible the missing part was inside the bladder. You would have probably heard it bouncing around if it was. I suspect that in all commotion that part just got loose and fell into the water. Apparently you had a spare so you could still inflate it.

AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:29 pm

fluidity wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:49 am
AZOR wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:40 pm
I was able to knee and move little with wind - is it possible with light wind , like 2m/s to go against wind ? No matter how I was rotating wing I always ended up going downwind, normal or I am doing something wrong ?
Azor, you will find it much easier as you build muscle memory but to go up wind you need to control the angle of the wing.
They are designed for foiling, not conventional sub planing craft so you are at a disadvantage in using it. You need some height, to at a very minimum, be able to position the wing behind your shoulder if you want to point up wind and you aren't standing. Onece you are knealing it's easier to get a better angle and standing you have full control. Keep in mind that the rigididity of a purpose designed inflateable or hard wing board will lock your platform to the wing and give you a lot more stability, especially as you pick up speed.

Well thank you. Meanwhile I saw a few videos and how to do that, was doing some things wrong (wingshould be on the back, some body twist and angle of board..).

That is actually another thing, when low wind I actually need to hold wing as it is not flying at all - this causing me getting exhausted quite quickly.

Speed is the problem, but unfortunately it is not up to me to decide when will be wind and when not- Forcast today is like 7 ms/s (as yesterday) but they are a lot of trees. Anyway I went to water anyway and it was like 3 hours of failing into water.

Will go again today. Yesterday I was actually able to stay on the board /wing no wing/ for some time, maybe like 20s .. huge improvement :O

AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:32 pm

RTL78901 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:16 pm
AZOR wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:40 pm
Ok, So, today I tried it again :)

Wing seems to be ok - possible to inflate.
Seems to me that if the wing can be inflated the valve must have been intact. If so, then in seems impossible the missing part was inside the bladder. You would have probably heard it bouncing around if it was. I suspect that in all commotion that part just got loose and fell into the water. Apparently you had a spare so you could still inflate it.
It is a small part, and it went inside, unfortunately (but I cannot hear that) as I found it into a valve and tried to remove that by some wire etc. and then I thing I push button deflate and it went through - as I didn't find it in the bathroom /tried at home/ and after next attempt of shaking it was not there.

Anyway since then - I was in water like 3 times, wing seems to be fine :)

AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:54 pm

So, I went 3-4x times since last time (sorry so busy to write here)

Some things I learnt
- When inflating wing make sure that valve is not in deflate position from last time.
- No swimming glasses, I do not use them now and it falls when I fall
- Backpack is pretty non-comfortable with wing leash
- Need to adjust backpack, pushing me up so much / maybe need different
- I fall into water like every minute, leash untangle is time consuming (need to under swim or so and it takes time)
- 3rd leash would be useful
- Here in Sweden is getting darker, need some light on paddle when I fall it flows but during dark it is like 2m from me and not much visible, some reflection thin would be useful on the end
- Need towel for phone
- Some condom for foil, hard to carry to beach, pretty sharp
- Will buy some wind-measure thingy
- Swimming gloves should be more accesible

And the most annoying thing ever:
When I fall in to the water I touch my backpack with my headphones and they switch of, so no music. Grr

I did
Dock start - not even close, I was not able to even slide the board by hands.
Beach start - not even close, at least I did some attempts.
Wing - some attempts, trying to stay with that - low wind I guess
Trying to stand on the board and maybe paddle to pump - hours and hours of failure :D but definitively better than first day, So far it is like 10h in the water with failing down like very 90s, hm

--
Some question I have (if someone can answer fine, otherwise I will try to google anyway)
- I have wrist leach for wing and leg for wing - should it be on the same side /other side ?
- Wing deflating on beach - I have sand everywhere, considering I can choose sand or water - what is the best to deflate ? either risk from sand and ribs or water is getting inside ?
- Stand on the board and start paddle
- When I knee and trying to use paddle to get initial speed - it is not like SUP - it does a circle - some tips here ?
- With 125L board - possible to stand/knee - start paddle in that position and then move it to the foil pumping position ?

AZOR
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:26 pm
Kiting since: 2021
Weight: 80
Local Beach: Nynnäsgård
Style: falling all the time
Gear: Rocket airt, gravity 2200 s26 naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Beginners struggle and broken pump inside the wing

Postby AZOR » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:53 pm

So, if nobody has objections I can write some things here, so maybe helpful for someone who is learning too and I can backtrack.

Today I got some wind :) Probably strong enough but not consistent and not sure about direction - I thing it was changing.

Since my first time with some wind-ish weather I discovered that problems comes with wind :D I saw many videos saying that with proper wind it is much easier but nobody really says that with that comes problems too. Like once you fell the wing probably ends up on its back. That doesn't seem to be like a big issue I know how to flip it but while flipping you are going downwind losing a few meters you won after some hardcore paddling against wind. The same comes with un-tangling leashes - I don't mind to untangle that, turn, under swim the foil, rotate or whatever - but while doing so - going downwind.

To me, being belly on the board, holding wing down by legs and paddling upwind is extremely difficult. The crawl/freestyle suggested on yt videos doesn't seem to be efficient at all. Breast stroke-like movement under the board seems to be better, more suitable. Not sure how I can improve that ? I tried swimming and it really didn't help (also board against wind stared going up...) I had swimming gloves but didn't put them on. Thinking that next option is some el. thruster or dive fins.

Next issue is that my wing is sinking on the bottom end when trying - not sure what I am doing here wrong - I have 166 cm and 5.3m2 wing. Holding it more up the head and not on the side? The next point,

Exhausted ? Since the wing is not flying for me (at least not most of the time, low wind ) I am not able to hold it high for long - never seen anyone discussing that on yt or here - what the hell - it has maybe like 3-4kg and hold that with straight arms for long?. What am I missing here?

Some improvements, I am actually not sure if I can go upwind or not (at least for these 20s before I fall) - is it possible that waves are different direction than wind and stronger? Because I managed a few times something that looked like actually going upwind before I felt.

And I better packed my waterproof backpack, making it lower air inside and tight it more :) Not bumping into my headphones when I fall and do not irritate me by buoy me up to much.

Should I use some kite leash quick-release with wing and board? Would be maybe much faster for un-tangling leashes (2x coil)

Also bigger backpack would be useful for wing - just because it fits to the backpack doesn't mean that I want to struggle with that on beach and folding it precisely while darkness

AZOR


Return to “Wingsurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests