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Steering Line Knots

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edt
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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby edt » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:29 am

Every kite is different. These general rule of thumb knot rules aren't that useful. Try different knots and find out which work best for your kite. Some kites like being choked others don't

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby knotwindy » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:02 am

This seems like it has gotten over complicated. What you are talking about is front line length relative to rear line length. It doesn’t really matter which knots you use or where you set them as long as the lengths end up where you want them.
For example, pick any knot on the kite bridle, adjust the trim cleat to full power, pull the bar in and set any knot on the back or front lines so it over sheets the kite slightly. When riding If the wind is too light pull in the trim. If the wind is too strong pull in the trim. The kite has no idea which line you changed or by how much as long as it winds up where you like it.
I suppose theoretically since you can always make the front lines shorter by trimming it makes more sense to make the back lines shorter as well(which in effects makes the front lines longer) but for most people most of the time it hardly matters. Unless you are a long way from the beach or only own one kite.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby Herman » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:08 am

Knotwindy and Edt make good points. Newbies often don’t seem to realise how simple it is. Far more revealing to just look at the rear lines to see how they are operating rather than to know what knot they are connected to.

Fly old kites and you find out it is not rocket science.
Last edited by Herman on Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby foam-n-fibre » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:29 am

Yes, it is all about the length of the front lines compared to the rears. If you have 2" of adjustment in the knots at the steering lines, why not add 2" of adjustment to the front line trim? I don't know when I go out if I might end up overpowered or underpowered during the session. I set up my own bars and they have long adjustment. I have never fussed with what knots to use on the steering lines. I can do all the adjustment I need while riding for any conditions.

What am I missing here, why do kite companies not do this? For the sake of a bit less loose ends when depowered? That seems like a small price to pay.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby Herman » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:16 pm

With respect foam-n-fibre, I think you may be missing something. It may be that peeps seem to expect everything to just fly out of the box with no need to understand the aerodynamics. If you gave a newbie a long strap he would probably come back and say the kite is uncontrollable when depowered, lines too slack, or the kite keeps backstalling, too much trim out. Just a theory!!!! :rollgrin: :rollgrin: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby AndersP » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:14 pm

I have the same backline settings regardless of wind.
I also have the bridles set as far forward/inward as possible.
Depower trim is long but not superlong.
Barthrow is medium.
Barpower medium to hard.

For waves i think is essential to be able to get rid of the power when the kite is flying fast through the windwindow.
Bridle setting helps a lot!

I usually pull some depower when riding waves and have less depower when going out through the waves. It takes only a couple of seconds to set the depower right and it makes the riding better bothways.

I have no problem with som extra bar pull going out and love being able to let most of the kitepower out when riding the waves. I still have enough power to steer the kite and give som extra push when needed.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby Herman » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:18 pm

Having something consistent has it merits, just look at Fabio Q if you are into Moto gp. My preference is virtually always as long a throw as comfortable. Then for big kites I like a long trim strap, but for small LEI I don’t have a trim strap at all, just an extra long throw to accommodate tethering and more or less enough depower to just let go of the bar rather than flag. Does mean hand to hand bar spinning or center line pulling to recover bar, also have to know where your rear pig knots are for backstall position that is required for the session. Loads of ways to skin the cat, as long as the simple simple principles are understood and you know/see what your rear lines are telling you, imho.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby foam-n-fibre » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:20 pm

Herman wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:16 pm
With respect foam-n-fibre, I think you may be missing something. It may be that peeps seem to expect everything to just fly out of the box with no need to understand the aerodynamics. If you gave a newbie a long strap he would probably come back and say the kite is uncontrollable when depowered, lines too slack, or the kite keeps backstalling, too much trim out. Just a theory!!!! :rollgrin: :rollgrin: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, but the alternative is that someone goes out with the kite rigged on the wrong knots and cannot fix it without coming to shore and changing kite settings. If they don't recognize the problem they will still have problems with the kite without knowing why. The difference is with my method, you play with the front line trim and solve your problem without having to trouble someone to land you or self land to do something so simple as changing the trim by a few inches.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby edt » Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:24 pm

Most kiters are beginners and it's hard to tell them to use the trim yourself to figure out how your kite flies best. They ain't got no time for that they have to ride now it's one of the five times per year that are able to get away from the wife kids and job so I understand. Still it's something you have to do. You can't just read rules on the interenet about this knot or that knot or this amount of trim or that amount. Every kite flies different and there are new models every year. The only way to tell where to put the knots or trim is experiment and find out yourself. If you just go for it because you are in a hurry and take someone else's advice on how to trim your kite that means you will never be fully powered.

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Re: Steering Line Knots

Postby Ice101 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:11 am

My take is that manufactures hide the trim knots under the floats purposely and set the kite to the middle knot for a reason. Most newbies don’t realise they can increase the range of the kite massively just by connecting to the upper knot closer to the kite, especially in light wind. That way they run out of safe range quicker and buy a new kite faster.most instructors that work for a shop don’t show them or go in to trimming their own gear so the shop owner sells more kites and makes more money.
There is good video by advakite about kite trimming explaining why your lines should be tight.
See loads of newbies who launch with lines connected on the middle knot as per manufacturer set up and the trimmer on full depower. Kite at 12 with loads of slack on the line and zero steering ability. Only needs a gust to take up that slack when they drop it on the window and accidents happen.
Always amuses me when you say wiggle your bar fast left to right and the kite stays at the zenith and don’t move even with the bar pulled in half way or more.
Always do the wiggle test. If the kite moves the same speed as the bar movement the lines are tight enough.


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