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Bar build; critique me please!

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Nelis
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby Nelis » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:55 am

Thanks for these suggestions gents! I'm going to try the rope based flagout. Looks really good. As I undertand the interlocking loops can't be made out of 1 piece when using lock splices, so need to decide on how to join those 2 pieces together...

First I need to order that size dyneema before I can continue.

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby knot_moving » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 am

Nelis wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:24 pm
Cool! Would be good to see that indeed!

The rings used are actually really light, way lighter than the stainless blocks I found on the bars I had anyways. But the rope-based idea sounds really good, but it does probably need a stopper of some kind on the larkshead or not?
I built one of evan's nifty flagout 'y's for front lines. I did end up adding a small stopper ball after I pulled the stopper knot thru twice. Used it plenty and it works like a charm.

Have fun with it! My bar doesn't have the built in flexible floats on the steering lines. In another thread there was some discussion that without the built in flexible floats, you do run a higher risk of steering line wrapping around the back of the bar. I only use my bar foiling and so the winds are relatively light for the kite. I wouldn't use it in super strong winds.

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby merl » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:34 pm

The trick with Evan's rope stopper is to make the "eye" pretty small, and to splice in an extra bit of line into the loop of the safety line to make it a little thicker. Then I think there is little chance of it pulling through. I have had more problems with line pulling through a stopper ball to be honest..

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby edt » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:49 pm

If you want to go minimal there's always the Ozone Stainless Steel Trimmer Bracket which does require one of little balls to be bought separately. It's only $25 so it's cheap. The Evans loop looks really interesting I didn't really understand it when he first posted it in that huge thread but I get it now. I would probably use a little stopper ball with the Evans loop in any case because then you don't have to worry so much about close tolerances on the size of that little loop

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby alpaia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:09 pm

splicing requires 50 approx diameters min bury length to avoid slipping unless stitched with a sawing machine

so if you have 25cm length use 2-3mm dyneema that holds > 500kg instead of 5mm that could hold > 2ton in theory but will slip out if not spliced properly.

as for line splitters made out of a very short loop it is very interesting evan's technique but remember e is a professional and scraping te last gram on race bars,
the loop diameter is critical so if you are building your own why take a chance to save $15 on a SSteel spliter from oozone or HQ ? or ring and plastic ball ?

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby br44 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:36 am

Nelis wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:21 am
I was planning on running the flagout line through it, with a little plastic ring that I scavenged from the old bars that stops the larksheads from the flagout line going through it, thus transferring the power. The other powerline can just have a larkshead just below that ring.
I doubt you can do better than the safety ring from Kite Attitude. Everything else is bigger and uglier.

https://www.kiteattitude.fr/en/21-safet ... -ring.html

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby rynhardt » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:56 pm

Old school is not necessarily the best school. :lol:
I removed this post because it was in hind-sight, terrible advice.
Last edited by rynhardt on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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edt
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby edt » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:12 pm

The way you have rigged those rings is a little bit dangerous if you want to rig the lines in the usual fashion. The rings are quite large and do not easily fit through the control bar hole. You should only use this system if you rig the flagging line outside the hole in the middle of your control bar, but then the swivel will work to wrap the flagging line around your chicken line. If you want to use this system it's fine but do not use steel o-rings on both sides. On the flagging side you will want to use one of those little stopper balls with a hole in it and rely on that to stop the lark's head. The problem though is that the pressure on the stopper ball against the o-ring eventually will cause the stopper ball to split in two. If you decide to use this sort of system with the above the bar swivel I suggest buying a proper swivel. I'm not sure how you have it rigged I'm sure you have it rigged safely, I would just be careful in recommending one of those old school systems with the o-rings and expect it to feed properly through the central hole on a control bar.

Of course any time you build a DIY control bar the test for all the systems shouldn't be a big wind day when the choice is the QR works or you die. Make sure to test everything properly on a light wind day. You never want the system to be such that if you have to jiggle it or it works "mostly", make sure that every single time you use the QR on a light wind day it flags out easily and quickly.

I remember over the years several QR systems from the kite manufacturers that needed to be jiggled or didn't work properly under load or "mostly" worked, they were deadly and contributed to accidents and possibly fatalities. We don't need to build DIY systems that "mostly" work, they should work cleanly and easily and never fail.

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby rynhardt » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:44 pm

Of course you're right - I've completely ignored the fact that the ring would need to go through the middle of the bar! :o

Sorry 'bout that, I've forgotten about the complexities of the standard flag-out setup.

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edt
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby edt » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:34 pm

there's no problem with it, just that photo doesn't show you the right way to rig for a modern control bar.


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