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Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

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Jose
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Jose » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:04 am

Dan-at-Duotone wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:13 am
A. Rebel SLS and Neo (and Neo SLS) do have pulleys, however the pulleys do not move unless the safety is activated. During normal kite flying they sit against knots and act the same as a fixed pigtail, unlike older Evos and Dice which had active pulleys.

B. There will be no Rebel in original construction for 2021. That design is so perfectly suited for the SLS treatment that it's a no-brainer upgrade.

C. Airton is insane. I could watch those kiteloops all day.

If anyone has any questions lemme know, as with everyone we've been slammed for the past year and I've been lax on chiming in here, will try to be better going forward...

-Dan

I have some questions.

Rebel 2021 use light dacron 140gr, Rebel SLS use penta tx 130gr.

Where is the 15% weight reduction you talk about at your promotional videos????

Facts:

Rebel sls 12mts 3,37kg less 40gr 1,17% (2021)
Rebel sls 9mts 2,89kg less 70gr 2,3%(2021)

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby LePhasme » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:22 am

Jose wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:04 am
I have some questions.

Rebel 2021 use light dacron 140gr, Rebel SLS use penta tx 130gr.

Where is the 15% weight reduction you talk about at your promotional videos????

Facts:

Rebel sls 12mts 3,37kg less 40gr 1,17% (2021)
Rebel sls 9mts 2,89kg less 70gr 2,3%(2021)
The 15% reduction is compared to the 2020 rebel in the 5m size I think

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby cor » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:38 pm

wrogu wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
Gestalt wrote:
cor wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:38 pm
I think the word "significantly" is a bit out of place here in general. I own an EVO SLS and it´s a bit like buying the sportier version of a car. It´s a bit more direct and responding and it has bigger windrange because it doesn´t flatter as much as the normal version (improving top end) and is also a bit lighter (improving low end and drifting). Everything feels a bit more crispy and well defined than with the normal version. However, there are also drawbacks. In gusty wind, the normal Evo version actually is better because the stiffer frame of the SLS translates gusts directly to the bar.
I also had heard the same thing from a friend who has an Evo SLS. She did not like it in gusty wind, and felt like it yanked her and her arms around a lot. I wonder how much this is due to the stiff frame, and/or lack of pulleys and sliders in the bridles?

The windier it gets typically the more gusty it becomes. In lower steadier wind speeds I found the Evo SLS a dream to fly, that was my only experience.
I had the same feelings with dice sls. You feel gusts a lot more and makes flying a bit more difficult. On the other hand the extra feedback is nice (if you want it). I also found it to be super stable ... thus I am on a wait list for 9m. I guess I will stick to yhe ordinary dice in large sizes.
Same experience here with the Evo SLS.

There are however a couple of things you can do to mitigate that and tune the kite to your preference, but all of them come with drawbacks of more indirect steering:
-Soft setting on kite
-Longer lines
-lines that are less rigid (the new Duotone lines are quite rigid, there are other lines on the market that are a bit more "elastic").
-Lower air pressure in the kite will let the canopy deform more and will make it feel more forgiving in gusts (of course not too low :wink: ).

Just some stuff that I´ve experimented with... In the end, it´s a decision between comfort and performance, according to your preference.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Dan-at-Duotone » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:07 pm

LePhasme-

As you mentioned, for the 2021 Rebel we switched to a lightweight Dacron for the LE, so the it was already a good bit lighter than 'standard' construction. Pentatx is lighter still, so you should get a bit more speed on the upstroke which helps with both jumping and lightwind performance. More significant is the stiffness... The Penta stretches WAY less than the DLE140 Dacron from 2021 and this allows better canopy shape (better jumping, better windrange) and quicker response to steering and other bar inputs. Or, as Havre put it, "yes". (though maybe not to the drifting part)

We should be getting our first production batch of Rebel SLS in North America in the next week or two (only had samples so far) so I'm hoping to get some good 'real life' feedback shortly, however everything I've heard from dealers and guys in the office has been very positive so far.

Again, if anyone has any more questions let me know...

-Dan
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby purdyd » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:45 am

cor wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:38 pm
wrogu wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
Gestalt wrote:

I also had heard the same thing from a friend who has an Evo SLS. She did not like it in gusty wind, and felt like it yanked her and her arms around a lot. I wonder how much this is due to the stiff frame, and/or lack of pulleys and sliders in the bridles?

The windier it gets typically the more gusty it becomes. In lower steadier wind speeds I found the Evo SLS a dream to fly, that was my only experience.
I had the same feelings with dice sls. You feel gusts a lot more and makes flying a bit more difficult. On the other hand the extra feedback is nice (if you want it). I also found it to be super stable ... thus I am on a wait list for 9m. I guess I will stick to yhe ordinary dice in large sizes.
Same experience here with the Evo SLS.

There are however a couple of things you can do to mitigate that and tune the kite to your preference, but all of them come with drawbacks of more indirect steering:
-Soft setting on kite
-Longer lines
-lines that are less rigid (the new Duotone lines are quite rigid, there are other lines on the market that are a bit more "elastic").
-Lower air pressure in the kite will let the canopy deform more and will make it feel more forgiving in gusts (of course not too low :wink: ).

Just some stuff that I´ve experimented with... In the end, it´s a decision between comfort and performance, according to your preference.
I don’t feel that way.

I know when I switched to liros sk99 lines on the 2018 evo I felt that the kite wasn’t as smooth.

I didn’t get that same feeling going to the evo sls from the 2020 evo.

I wonder how much people feeling the gusts more is due to the new bar with the flite99 lines?

I’m finding it harder to tell if I am overpowered and while on the regular Dacron version I was reluctant to fly a kite if I had to depower because I lost steering while on the sls version the steering gets progressively faster with more wind so it turns fast even depowered.

It has me rethinking my sizing and when to change kites.

I’d also like a 6m version as dropping to that from the 7m sls is a noticeable difference.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby LePhasme » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:01 am

Dan-at-Duotone wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:07 pm
Again, if anyone has any more questions let me know...

-Dan
Thanks for your answers, I do have another question.
What do the people at duotone recommend to jump higher, use a fully powered kite or a bigger kite depowered ?

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby dracop » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:19 pm

A smaller kite properly loaded will generate a a more vertical /\ style jump with better height but a quick yank up and drop down. Better for KOTA style Big Air involving megaloops and aggressive powered kiteloops.

A depowered bigger kite will generate a lower height jump with better hang time which is much better for old school tricks as you have more time / \ time to do more tricks in an easier fashion.

The reasons Bigger kites suck at megaloop is that their chief advantage of hang time goes away once the kite is no longer above you. At that point the kite is not generating lift and powered kiteloops quickly move the kite below the 11:30-12:30 direction needed to providing upward lift. The bigger kites are also slower to react than smaller kites. So the speed of smaller kites to generate a hard yank and travel through the different arcs of the wind window make them ideal for kiteloop approaches whereas keeping a big depowered kite above you during the jump creates a hang glider effect ideal for old school tricks.

Design wise the Rebel is awesome at hang time and the Dice/Vegas/Evo are better for megaloops.
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Dan-at-Duotone » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:59 pm

LePhasme-

I agree with dracop with this added... It will also depend on your style of jumping. But generally, I find that the correct sized kite will jump better in experienced hands than a larger kite where you're sheeted out until it's overhead and you sheet in, basically using sheer power instead of correct timing/steering to send the kite for maximum height. But I'm not a big-air guy so if anyone else feels otherwise feel free to correct me...

-Dan

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby matth » Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:53 pm

Dan do you have a timeline for when regular(non SLS) 2022 Rebels will land in the US???

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Dan-at-Duotone » Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:46 pm

No more Rebel original. At this point I believe the plan is only to offer the Rebel in SLS going forward. Again, this design seemed particularly well suited to SLS construction, particularly since the Rebel design is already aimed at experienced kiters and the more we work with SLS the more we are convinced that it rewards more experienced riders.

-Dan
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