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King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

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Toby
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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby Toby » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:32 am

1. KOTA innovation will stagnate as riders abide by the judges' criteria.
2. Many viewers will stop watching. We all tune in to see something we can't do and have never seen before.

If the judges aren't rewarding the next level tricks...then the judges are doing it wrong.
exactly...well said !

and there is so much more possible...
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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby Blackened » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:01 am

SMJ wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:56 am
If the judges are going to score old-fashioned powered kiteloops over innovation (i.e. this year's Contraloops with multiple rotations) then 2 things will happen:
1. KOTA innovation will stagnate as riders abide by the judges' criteria.
2. Many viewers will stop watching. We all tune in to see something we can't do and have never seen before.

Just like in every other extreme sport (wakeboarding, skateboarding, moto x, etc.) we all tune in to see the next level trick - riders pushing it to the limit. Nobody wants to see a skater win an X-Games with a 900. Why? Because Tony Hawk did it in 1999. Same goes for powered kiteloops.

If the judges aren't rewarding the next level tricks...then the judges are doing it wrong.
Then start an Airstyle comp and stop complaining about KOTA judging. This is supposed to be a Red Bull extreme event for extreme riders pushing the limit. That's why Josh scored an 8.8 for a radical loop. It's not a jumping comp with who can do the most rotations.

Also, for innovation, the 2020 KOTA only had a couple people doing backroll board offs. Marc was the first to land a board spin. The biggest scorers were typically just straight board offs (see Nick's buttcheck controversy last year). In 2021 the minimum standard was the 2020 rares. Not to mention this year multiple people doing contras, double board offs rolls and triple rotations. This is the most the sport has progressed in years. I'm more than happy to say the BAKL has pushed the old crew to evolve, and a few responded. They escalated the trick level while still maintaining the extremity.

I have no doubt the sport will evolve rapidly with the young guys pushing the variety limit. Now they just need to learn to combine their new stuff with the required extremity and we have a winner. Marc/Liam responded to the changes to adapt this year, so I'm sure they can as well next year. We all want new stuff, but lets not forget what makes this event this event.

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby ARK » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:47 am

Toby wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:52 pm
DBA6AF8B-54E9-4B51-AAFC-06FD5C92E427.jpeg
Board off Late Back

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby Toby » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:24 am

ARK wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:47 am
Toby wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:52 pm
DBA6AF8B-54E9-4B51-AAFC-06FD5C92E427.jpeg
Board off Late Back
+ Inverted

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby KimAndersen » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:32 am

Hmm this obsession with ”new” tricks bugs me a bit. While I aggree new and innovative tricks are exciting, they should only be rewarded if they. 1. meet the judging criteria, 2. meet a certain standard.

In relation to judging criteria, this fx. means that no matter how technical or innovative the trick might be, it is not going to be rewarded if there is no height. So if a rider does, lets say a grabbed dobbelt hartattack 9 with a low kite, it is innovative and the level of technical difficulty is through the roof, so it would definitely score high on the freestyle tour, probably a perfect 10. But in KOTA it shouldn’t be rewarded because here the judging criteria is different, and the trick just doesn’t have enough hight.

In relation to my point of a certain standard. I mean that no matter how new or innovative a trick is, for it to be rewarded, it has to be as or more difficult than the existing tricks, if not, it is not progressing anything. This might be a silly example, but is shows the point. If new is just rewarded without setting such a standard. Then imagine a rider on his way out hits a kicker goes high scratches his ass with his right hand, never seen before in Kota. He turns on the way in he does it again but now on the opposite tack, never seen before in Kota. He turns, on the way out he jumps again, but now he scratches his ass with his left hand and so the story continues. Should this rider really win Kota?

To be honest I found the judging to be really good, and the best riders won the´re heats. I love watching Janek as he is an incredible rider, he is just not pulling really powered loops. So if according to the judging criteria, low angled powered kiteloops are what the judges are looking for, he just fails on both the above points. What he does is certainly new and technical, but doesn’t meet the judging criteria, it is without a doubt hard to pull off, but just not harder, than what is already done, because of the higher kite angle.

What people find to be the right judging criteria is of course purely subjective, and therefore everybody is entitled to the’re point of view, but in the end, it is up to the organizers. And this year they chose to reward powered kiteloops, and the riders will have to adapt to that if they want to win. In my opinion Kevin Langeree was a perfect example in this years Kota. He is such an experienced contest rider, at it clearly shows. Kevin in early Kota’s pulled really high loops, but they were usually pretty powerless compared to many other riders. But this year he was definitely pulling them earlier with lower kiteangle and more powered than before.

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby Havre » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:57 am

Share many of Kim's views.

To me it almost sounds like they could split the current KOTA in two - one more focusing on extreme height and another competition focusing on more "tricks".

Not sure how much it matters, but as previously mentioned, I'm not convinced that what I perceive as the current direction is good for kite development for basically all riders not at Marc's level. Will Core now change their XR, which clearly goes high enough, but loop differently? Will kites be designed to yank you more brutally in loops because it looks more dramatic in competitions - even if most "normal" riders would rather have a smooth looping kite?

It might not be that KOTA is the right competition for it, but I would love to see a competition where what is considered the "best" "big air" kites for "normal" kiters actually shine. Then again I wouldn't know if they actually had jumped higher in the final if they had all been on Rebels?

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby Gestalt » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:37 pm

We have Woo leaderboard for extreme height. In some ways it's a perpetual long run competition.
Not sure how much sense it would make to make that into a specific event competition if it usually fell short of the top 10 or 30 spots on the leaderboard. Also extreme 40knot+ winds would be just as much as a limiting factor as skill.

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby Havre » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:44 pm

Not suggesting it should be pure height. But I don't believe this year KOTA was scored as if height was to count 70%.

Like an American all-star game event they could have had one day with just jumping high as well - like a sub-event. Similar to golf you might have seen the development of a different kind of rider (in golf you have the long drive competition). I doubt such an even would have been as popular as the current main event, but why not?

The point vs. Woo would be that you get to compare at least 2/3 kites at the same time (you can argue the conditions will vary enough between heats so that you can't directly compare the height between them). And that they might come up with a technical solution which gives a much more accurate height that Woo - which is to a large extent a lottery.

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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby a99 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:07 pm

Definitely it is world lowest megaloop.

Looks unreal, and kite goes just probably one meter from water surface!!!

This guy Jason van der Spuy must be REAL KOTA King of the year 2021! It is much more spectacular and dangerous trick than all rotations or boardoffs of Kota riders.

I give to him 10.00 score:) Please show this video to Kota judges:)!!! And ask what score they will give, probably 5.20 :)?
I can image kota judges internal talks during kota if they must give scores to him- unknown guy, suppported by who, how we can give him highest score :)


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Re: King of the Air 2021 - all info here (Marc Jacobs wins!)

Postby lindseym » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:41 pm

metrox wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:16 pm
Did only I saw this :o :(
Everything can happen etc, but this is not good move IMHO ...
Yes, I saw this too and it caught my attention. I think this was honestly done in good fun and joking around. Yes, this is a serious competition but many of these guys (and gal) know each other well and have alot of history together. Its not uncommon for some to show affection through crass remarks and gestures...kind of funny really. Yes, its probably not the wisest thing to do in a competition like this but after looking at the footage I genuinely believe that it was not really malicious and Kevin was just joking around. Yes, Kevin is super competitive but I definitely don't think he's one one to do something like that in anger.


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