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Peak 4 air colapse

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jumptheshark
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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:04 pm

Low V on all Peak bars up to 21m lines. No issues with collapse.

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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:20 pm

Low or high V, doesnt matter.

I have never had a kite collapse when wind, using 3-4-5-6-8-11 m2 Peak4s.

Only one time when the wind died, as in TOTALLY died, and it was glassy, it happened, my 8 m2 collapsed.

This means, it only happens with rider error - you are riding towards the kite so you get totally slack lines.

Stalling the kite means nothing, it wont collapse because of this, maybe flap the tips inward a bit, but doesnt matter.

You are riding too fast underneath the kite, underflying it so much, that drift is impossible.

More experience, and it will be all gone :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Flyboy » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:47 am

Cefirmeza wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:12 pm
Second time using a Peak in 4m on proper wind for the size and after a toeside turn the kite colapses in the air and crashed. I could make a reverse relauch but pulled the wrong side and crashed again with no chances to relaunch so I had a swim in after a long kite kitefoiling.

What may have caused this colapsing? I was very aware of not crashing the kite but this was a bad surprise for me.
Perhaps an over sheeting or may reversed it.
What could have possibly gone wrong?
Yeah, even without a lot of experience, it's not easy to collapse a Peak. I remember when I first flew the 4m - I was shocked at how straightforward it was to use. Not really any learning curve at all. In my first 10 - 15 sessions using Peaks (6m & 4m) I never collapsed them. I did put them in the water a few times while waterstarting underpowered (something to watch out for as the 4m will back stall & turn into the water very quickly if you put too much pressure on it the back lines). However, I managed to reverse relaunch the kite every time when it happened, as it goes down nose first.

Since those first sessions I have crashed Peaks on several occasions & had to swim in ... however it has always been due to fairly significant user error. It's easy to get so relaxed using the Peaks that you end up making a mistake at some point. You should have confidence that flying the Peaks doesn't require some arcane, specialized technique - it's all perfectly intuitive & natural. :thumb:

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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:30 pm

So many questions, sorry.

Exactly what kind of collapse? Frontal/leading edge collapse? Stalled/oversheet collapse? Random drifting and hit a rotor and collapse? total collapse or single wingtip? Were you powered or drifting?

I've run the Peaks with both Y, Low V. For our local riding low V is plenty stable in our inland turbulent conditions. As others have stated, zero issues with Low V and is preferred here as on the rare times the kite inverts it is still airworthy with the low V whereas Y lines are not nearly as functional inverted.

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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Cefirmeza » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:25 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:30 pm
So many questions, sorry.

Exactly what kind of collapse? Frontal/leading edge collapse? Stalled/oversheet collapse? Random drifting and hit a rotor and collapse? total collapse or single wingtip? Were you powered or drifting?

I've run the Peaks with both Y, Low V. For our local riding low V is plenty stable in our inland turbulent conditions. As others have stated, zero issues with Low V and is preferred here as on the rare times the kite inverts it is still airworthy with the low V whereas Y lines are not nearly as functional inverted.

Thank you for all the answers. Good to have experienced peak riders to help.
I was powered right after a jibe to toeside and suddenly the kite lost its shape and i didnt know how to recover it.
When it touched the water then I could recover line tension for a relaunch but because of a mistake the kite crashed again.

I really have no idea what I may have done wrong.
I also noticed that the sheeted in kiteloops were not perfect. The kite looped loosing its shape but manageble. Did it dozens of times to umtwist lines.

Anyways. I will use it again with another bar to see if it behaves differently.

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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:27 pm

Aaah, okay, I think you simply have to use more time to "get the feel" of perfect sheeting.

When you write your powered kiteloops are odd and somewhat losing shape, it is definitely because you dont hold the perfect sheeting all the way round the loop.

It is extremely sensitive if you under and in particular oversheet, even just one or two cm can kill the kite and its shape..

So when you were riding toeside, I think the same has happened - not because you underfly the kite.

You are over sheeting, without knowing :D

What you experience is very normal for everyone using the 3 and 4 m2 Peak4 for the first long long period of time.

It takes a lot of time to learn to sheet perfect on your backbone - and in particular to learn to loop it in a wide arc without too much nor too little sheeting - is REALLY difficult, and the most important skill to learn in order to start in their low end.

Dont think about it from now on, just ride and it will all come in time by itself, I am sure, just like everyone else has experienced.

8) Peter
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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby kitexpert » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:47 pm

At 40kn Peak4 wingtip can fold in and may not recover. It is a bit difficult to sheet in to help it in that kind of wind. Small LEI kite is better in high wind conditions because single skin foil kite doesn't like to be used very much depowered.
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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:25 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:47 pm
At 40kn Peak4 wingtip can fold in and may not recover. It is a bit difficult to sheet in to help it in that kind of wind. Small LEI kite is better in high wind conditions because single skin foil kite doesn't like to be used very much depowered.

True, but hardly the case for the OP as the 4 m2 has a sweetspot around 16-18 knots so he has hardly been out in winds where even the 3 m2 is way too big :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: Peak 4 air colapse

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:08 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:27 pm
Aaah, okay, I think you simply have to use more time to "get the feel" of perfect sheeting.

When you write your powered kiteloops are odd and somewhat losing shape, it is definitely because you dont hold the perfect sheeting all the way round the loop.

It is extremely sensitive if you under and in particular oversheet, even just one or two cm can kill the kite and its shape..

So when you were riding toeside, I think the same has happened - not because you underfly the kite.

You are over sheeting, without knowing :D

What you experience is very normal for everyone using the 3 and 4 m2 Peak4 for the first long long period of time.

It takes a lot of time to learn to sheet perfect on your backbone - and in particular to learn to loop it in a wide arc without too much nor too little sheeting - is REALLY difficult, and the most important skill to learn in order to start in their low end.

Dont think about it from now on, just ride and it will all come in time by itself, I am sure, just like everyone else has experienced.

8) Peter
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