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Take Foil apart always after use?

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Windigo1
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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby Windigo1 » Wed May 25, 2022 2:10 pm

daffes wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:17 am
Windigo1 wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 12:30 pm
I almost never take my foil apart it fits in my car assembled. I use silver anti seize compound the same stuff the same stuff I use for car parts. It has never seized ever sometimes it's stays assembled for months and I ride a few times a week but 90% of the time it's fresh water.
Where and in which position do you put it in your car assembled? Maybe can save me a few tries to optimize it :).
I just slide it in with board facing the passenger side of the car and the foil facing the driver side. I can fit a twintip or 2 along the side of the car where the foil goes. I have the seat down in my car (mid size SUV). I throw the kite behind the foil mast and my big bag with harness and wetsuit in front of the mast. I'll take a picture next time if anybody cares for one.

galewarning
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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby galewarning » Wed May 25, 2022 3:09 pm

A few more comments. Sorry, I am infected with material science...
I'm currently using lanolin, because it does a decent job of controlling corrosion and you can wipe it off, or use a solvent to help remove it.
FluidFilm, lanolin based, is the most popular product used as a spray-on vehicle undercoating. It's not the best for that application, CRC makes a better Heavy Duty Corrosion inhibitor, but it's better than nothing.
Tef-Gel is probably the best for corrosion control, but if you drop a screw in the dirt/sand it's almost impossible to clean. No normal solvent is good at removing it. Ask me how I know. This is what got me to try the sample of lanolin Slingshot supplied with my most recent foil kit. However, Tef-Gel is still the best for those who never, or very infrequently, disassemble their foil.
Any of the copper, nickel or moly based anti-seize compounds will also do a wonderful job, but they are very messy.
IMHO, it's like splitting hairs about what oil to use in your vehicle. The more important issue is how frequently you change your oil and doing so consistently. Salt water use and high humidity mean more frequent maintenance, compared to freshwater and dry climate use.
Ironically, frequent assembly and disassembly means the fasteners will wear the threaded holes and inserts. All it takes is a few grains of sand in the grease/lube and you created grinding compound to speed-up the wear on the threads. So... part of the ritual is periodically wiping off the fasteners and reapplying grease. Maybe also wipe out [and solvent clean] the threaded holes, if your fasteners come out with dirty and dark grease.
Aluminum, from a galvanic perspective, is the most vulnerable of all the materials used in foil kits. A properly anodized aluminum part will help control corrosion, but the anodizing can and will eventually be worn through. Blind and threaded holes [which can trap water] in aluminum fuselages are the problem areas to watch, rinse and lube. Same thing for those extruded aluminum masts, which can trap quite a bit of water in the passages. And are any of the plugs/seals, which manufacturers use to plug those passages, leaking? If so, more water to stay trapped inside and contribute to corrosion.
One more thing I just recently discovered... Don't assume your new and shiny kit is as clean as it can be. Maybe rinse/blow out the threaded holes and swirl a q-tip in the insert to make sure debris from the manufacturing process isn't still trapped in the hole(s).
End of sermon, -Ciao
JakeFarley wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:17 am
Thanks to all for their recommendations. I really like lanolin as it does not come off easily (my hands smell like sheep :D ). I found a lanolin based lubricant at Ace Hardware called Lanox MX4 that I am going to try.
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JakeFarley (Wed May 25, 2022 7:27 pm)
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merl
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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby merl » Wed May 25, 2022 3:42 pm

galewarning wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:09 pm
...
Any of the copper, nickel or moly based anti-seize compounds will also do a wonderful job, but they are very messy.
...
I would be very suspicious of any metal-based anti-seize products. I got some weicon anti-seize paste [not recommended] with my first foil:
https://kitesyndikat.de/montagepaste-variofoil/
I think it is a nickel based paste. I found that it worked extremely badly, and wondered why (especially compared with a ptfe based paste that I used more recently). Maybe I misunderstand how these metal-additives are intended to work, but note that aluminum and stainless steel are so far apart in the galvanic index, and most of these metal additives are in between them on the scale, so do not act as a sacrificial metal - which is how I suppose they are intended to work.

Tef-gel is based on PTFE (which has its own environmental issues), but not metal additives.
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JakeFarley (Wed May 25, 2022 7:28 pm)
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galewarning
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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby galewarning » Wed May 25, 2022 5:11 pm

@merl,
Warning: Geek speak ahead... Using the metal based anti-seize products would be better than nothing, but they would all create a nice and black mess to wipe off. Don't think there wold be an issue with causing any additional corrosion, especially with the moly disulfide type, but there are better choices for water/marine use.
The metal particles in anti-seize prevents metal to metal galling. Different particles for different material sets, environments and temperatures. All the anti-seizes contain a grease carrier [usually petroleum based] and some of the products also contain graphite, creating more black mess to deal with. Moly disulfide is also cool stuff, but another black mess to deal with. Best use for the Ni containing anti-seize is high temperatures and/or titanium [my Ti hardtail bike has a lot of the Ni anti-seize applied to any fastener touching, or pressed into, the frame].
Another PTFE product which would work is any of the Krytox greases, but their niche is more vacuum [low vapor pressure] and chemical resistance. Expensive stuff too...
After geeking-out and stressing on all this , I still think the best thing to do is ritual rinsing, drying and periodic lubing [with anything]. If it's easy to apply, wipe off and cheap, that's even better. For me all the boxes are checked by lanolin. My alternative choices would be simple petroleum jelly, lithium grease. And I still have Tef-Gel, but it's just a PITA to clean, especially if you drop a screw or foil in blowing sand areas.

merl wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:42 pm
galewarning wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:09 pm
...
Any of the copper, nickel or moly based anti-seize compounds will also do a wonderful job, but they are very messy.
...
I would be very suspicious of any metal-based anti-seize products. I got some weicon anti-seize paste [not recommended] with my first foil:
https://kitesyndikat.de/montagepaste-variofoil/
I think it is a nickel based paste. I found that it worked extremely badly, and wondered why (especially compared with a ptfe based paste that I used more recently). Maybe I misunderstand how these metal-additives are intended to work, but note that aluminum and stainless steel are so far apart in the galvanic index, and most of these metal additives are in between them on the scale, so do not act as a sacrificial metal - which is how I suppose they are intended to work.

Tef-gel is based on PTFE (which has its own environmental issues), but not metal additives.
Last edited by galewarning on Thu May 26, 2022 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby Dingus » Thu May 26, 2022 9:58 am

New to foiling, also worried about thread’s seizing.

greased the …. Out of everything with a ‘lock tight’ silicone based tap grease. I have a tube. What an incredible sand magnet, fml!

Have used solvent to clean off threads, and now thinking 2 rounds of thin Teflon tape is better. Just applying, tighten screw, remove screw, if Teflon is still on entire thread. Remove Teflon and reapply the same way(number of rounds). Sand and Teflon seem to repel each other…?

Please rubbish my testing and provide me a better solution!

Thanks all- ding.

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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby ieism » Thu May 26, 2022 6:30 pm

I never take it apart, because it easily fits in my cars. I tried taking it apart after more than a year of salt water use and no problems. just used some copper grease I had laying around.

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Re: Take Foil apart always after use?

Postby rnelias » Thu May 26, 2022 9:48 pm

my foil is aluminum and usually I just disassembly the mast from the board and the plane from the mast. Fresh water and it's done for the next session.

Plane I keep assembled for months but renew the white grease on the screws from time to time.

Note that, if both parts are of the same metal alloy, they usually holds oxidation better (there's no electric potential difference or it's minimal)

My foil is F-One and it has some stainless steel inserts where the screws are fixed, thus, the contact of both parts use the same metal alloy


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