Recommended Line Length for 3m LEI

[ralu81]

I purchased a 3m Slingshot Rally GT as a trainer kite to start teaching my kids on. I used a bar that is tuned properly with 20m lines and the kite is very difficult to fly especially for a beginner. The biggest think I notice when it flies is how slack the back lines and you can tell with the delay in steering. I flew it in 18-20 kn winds. I planned on using the kite for foiling in higher winds as well. Anyone have a recommendation on what line length would work best?

[Herman]

Small kites can work well on any reasonable line length, long or short. Just because your line length are even on the bar does not guarantee that the kite will be in tune. Admittedly it should with a new kite but in my experience this is not always the case. I suggest you try shortening the rear pigs or lengthening the front pigs or a combination of the two. The above assumes you have trimmed all out and still do not have enough tension in the rears.

With such a small kite it should also be easy to find the backstall point and this will tell you how much pig to adjust.

PS choice of line length depends more on discipline/style for which kite is used. 20m should be ok for training, go to 25m if it is too quick for your needs. Go long for hydrofoil, can go shorter for wave but not essential for small quick kites imho.

[Peter_Frank]

Agree fully with Herman

[jakemoore]

I had a 3m 3strut wave kite from a different reputable brand purchased for the kids. In 20 knot winds that kite would not turn until it was flying backwards with back-stall. Similar experience with unreasonably slack lines to allow the kite to fly to the zenith. Fortunately the shop took it back.

Not every kite scales down well. I can't speak for the Rally.

[Herman]

A small LEI that is designed for 30+ knots is arguably an excellent trainer if the student has good aptitude and the instructor is experienced. I say arguably because this type of kite only needs a small bar throw and is therefore sensitive plus, particularly when underpowered, it is prone to backstall and it’s associated vagaries. It does mean that if you can master it you will have acquired a lot of flying skill. With a 3m in 18 to 20 knots for training purposes, I would set it up with a fair amount of backstall so it was easy to check before overflying the window and, teach backstall recovery by sheeting out and pulling the fronts if necessary. If you try and set it up without backstall it has to be tweaked and tuned very precisely because of the small throw or you end up with slack rears ….can be done with lots of experience if the conditions are stable. Some designs make underpowered flying easier with small kites than others, as indicated by Jake. (Easiest way to set up with little backstall is probably having backstall in the bar throw and then just carefully take it out with the trim strap….. this needs fine tuning skills.)

PS 3m LEI good trainer for advancing skills but probably not a good first kite??

[sflinux]

What size bar are you using? My guess is the bar is too long (i.e 17"), something like 14" would be better.
20M is too long. You should try ~18M and go down from there. The lines are too short if you can't comfortably loop the kite. The lines and bar that comes with trainer kites are too long. Much more fun if you cut the lines in half and shorten the bar.
An easy way to tune is to have the rear lines too tight, then pull in the depower strap until the kite no longer stalls when unhooked at the edge of the window. If the kite stalls in turns, then the bar is too long.
I have a 2.5M kite that is fun to fly. Hopefully you can get yours tuned well. I haven't flown a Rally yet, but my buddy gave me some to try.

[Peter_Frank]

I dont know the specific kite, can see it is not a trainer kite, but a "real" kite you want to use as a trainer and for yourself on hydrofoils.

But agree, as others have said, be sure to find the stall point and set it a bit up on the depower, so the "student" can learn how to handle this point - VERY important.
Never set it to fly fine when bar is pulled in - I sometimes see more experienced kitesurfers who has not learned to ride (nor trim) a kite properly afters years - it is sad...

When learned, it is personal whether you want the kite to fly with bar pulled in - individual liking, but for learning it is good that it can stall, especially with the short depower throw small kites has, you need to set it this way.

Bar length is personal, but again, if a student learning in light winds first, just use a long bar - gives better reactions and when you want to ride it yourself on a hydrofoil, you dont need a short bar anyways.

Line length - short is good for a student, yes.

But for you when foiling, 22 to 26 meter lines can be a huge advantage of such a small kite, as you get WAY more room to work so even in lulls or when carving, you can always get the power on demand you need.
If you always ride it extremely powered, you can go to normal or even short lines, if that is your preference.
I have found the opposite, that the supersmall kites works better with a tad longer lines, smoothens everything out powerwise and a lot more windrange.

Have never used a small kite that has lag in reactions because of longer lines - I think it must be the trim which is off, so the kite does not stall when bar is pulled - then you end up in this situation very often

Peter

My 3.5 m2 LEI:

[Herman]

Couple of teaching points to consider:

Finding the edge of window for assisted launching rig it on 5m extensions so you can talk easily. One on bar other holding kite.

Looping and the wind window rig on 25m …. Can open or square loop for power, can loop in one side of window with little power.

[ralu81]

Thanks for all of the recommendations... I was able to stall the kite and that's why I was assuming I needed shorter lines. When I was flying it, I was very aggressive with turning and looping and it was the only way I could keep it in the air. It was really tough to launch in the traditional method at the edge of the window. It would generally just fall down wind and I would end up hot launching it. Obviously not ideal for someone who is learning. I'm leaning on the side of it's not a good kite for a beginner and I will just use it for higher wind foiling. I wouldn't be surprised if SS made the 3m of this model as something for the shops to hang in their stores as a display and not really meant to fly. Either way I'll give it a go in some higher winds with a foil and see how it goes.

[Herman]

Simplistically, stall has nothing to do with flying line length. For a properly tuned kite It is related to angle of attack which is controlled by sheeting the bar and the trim strap, bar even line lengths are still even whether long or short. Where did you have the trim strap when trying to launch? Where did you have the bar?

PS If you are using all the bar throw for a normal bar on this size of kite it normal that there will be times that the rears will be too slack and, for a normal ergonomic setting for the arms, there will be times the rears are too tight!! Keep thinking about it and you will get there!