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633 too small, but...?

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joekitetime
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Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:58 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Weight: 160
Local Beach: Sherman Island, SF BAY CA
Style: Surf Foiler
Gear: Appletree, FONE, Mike's Lab, Peak4, Mystic, Wainman Hawaii
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Re: 633 too small, but...?

Postby joekitetime » Wed May 25, 2022 4:47 pm

galewarning wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:47 pm
Update: Friend of mine is going to let me use his Moses W790 front wing. Supposedly it will bolt to the Phantasm fuse. Will soon find out next week...
I winged and kited on the Moses 790 for a season, amidst other foils to test. Sadly I'd say, or maybe not sadly, foils have progressed impressively. And, as someone has pointed out in this thread, kite foiling is different than wing foiling in that whereas the kite provides mega power 98% of the time, the wing provides 0% of the power 20% of the time. That being said, being one of the addicts who kites 50% of the time and wings 50% of the time, and rides the same board/foil often, I can agree wholeheartedly with other posters who make this conclusion: you need mega power when winging with foils designed for kiting - with one exception - Mike's Lab. His foil designs are just off the richter, and his top riders are now interchanging his super high aspect foils for either sport. His foils have such incredible lift and low stall speed that they work for either - they can handle high speeds for kiting, and slow speeds for winging. Guys are now having two boards built - one for winging and one for kiting - but using the same foil to slap on to the board for the day's conditions.

But I digress. Back to the 790 and 633. Again, the 633 was my favorite all time foil, for kiting (but I rode it on the 380 stab). The 790 was initially built for windfoiling I think. It wasn't good for kiting in my opinion, and wasn't that great for winging. It was "satisfactory". Limited range, limited carvability, limited pumping. Sure, it works, but just mediocre overall.

What is sad, because it kills my wallet, is that foil progression is such that you just really cannot afford not to spend the money since you are spending the time to ride the best stuff out there. It really makes a difference.

I love to experiment and I ride everything, and in the oddest combos, but the high end foils make a world of difference.

galewarning
Medium Poster
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:48 pm
Weight: 168
Local Beach: Any slowly draining lake in the Desert Southwest & Land of Detachment.
Gear: 15.5m Switch Helium2, 12m SS RPX, 7/10m RPM ('19), 7/9m SS UFO 1.1, 5/6/8m SS SST, SS Phantasm 633, SS Dwardcraft 110, SS Convert [my directional], SS 159 Glide; SS 138 Vision, 136 Nobile Split; I-Fly 105 / SAB 790
Brand Affiliation: None directly, but I do have friends in the snow and wind sports industries.
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Re: 633 too small, but...?

Postby galewarning » Wed May 25, 2022 5:39 pm

@joekitetime,
Re: 790 & 633 - I got the W790 used for $150, in very good condition. And it worked with my existing 633 kite kit, without having to buy a new fuse/stab or a need to shim. Think it will be a good first foil for my winging progression. It has allowed me to skip over the huge low-aspect 2000cm+ sized foils. However, even at my 'still-crawling' level of wing proficiency, I can understand why wingers want better glide out of a foil. I'm starting to feel the same thing for my 633 when kite foiling, maybe not the best gliding foil, but it has such a forgiving stall and is so maneuverable I forgive any other shortcomings for kite foiling.
Re: Mike's Lab - Yeah, Mike Z makes everything at the 'awesome' level! Back when I raced [windsurf] Nationals and the US Open, I got to know Mike a little. Once upon a US Open in CC, he was nice enough to give me, a flatwater geek competing with the big dogs, a quick tutorial on how to sand [formula] fins the proper way, after mentioning I had a 'screaming' fin I wasn't happy with. I can only imagine the high level he has taken foiling gear to.
Re: Slingshot 926 - Any experience riding the Slingshot 926?
-B
joekitetime wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 4:46 pm
galewarning wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:47 pm
Update: Friend of mine is going to let me use his Moses W790 front wing. Supposedly it will bolt to the Phantasm fuse. Will soon find out next week...
I winged and kited on the Moses 790 for a season, amidst other foils to test. Sadly I'd say, or maybe not sadly, foils have progressed impressively. And, as someone has pointed out in this thread, kite foiling is different than wing foiling in that whereas the kite provides mega power 98% of the time, the wing provides 0% of the power 20% of the time. That being said, being one of the addicts who kites 50% of the time and wings 50% of the time, and rides the same board/foil often, I can agree wholeheartedly with other posters who make this conclusion: you need mega power when winging with foils designed for kiting - with one exception - Mike's Lab. His foils designs and just off the richter, and his top riders are now interchanging his super high aspect foils for either sport. His foils have such incredible lift and low stall speed that they work for either - they can handle high speeds for kiting, and slow speeds for winging. Guys are now having two boards built - one for winging and one for kiting - but using the same foil to slap on to the board for the day's conditions.

But I digress. Back to the 790 and 633. Again, the 633 was my favorite all time foil, for kiting (but I rode it on the 380 stab). The 790 was initially built for windfoiling I think. It wasn't good for kiting in my opinion, and wasn't that great for winging. It was "satisfactory". Limited range, limited carvability, limited pumping. Sure, it works, but just mediocre overall.

What is sad, because it kills my wallet, is that foil progression is such that you just really cannot afford not to spend the money since you are spending the time to ride the best stuff out there. It really makes a difference.

I love to experiment and I ride everything, and in the oddest combos, but the high end foils make a world of difference.


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