Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Winging and Self Rescue

Forum for wing surfers
User avatar
jkrug
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:17 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 200 lbs
Gear: stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby jkrug » Wed May 25, 2022 12:20 pm

some keep saying 'use the wing' to help you get back. if there is no wind anymore, the wing is only a burden, not a help.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6505
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 335 times

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby edt » Wed May 25, 2022 2:33 pm

jkrug wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:20 pm
some keep saying 'use the wing' to help you get back. if there is no wind anymore, the wing is only a burden, not a help.
The wind dies. Then it might come back again. If you deflate your wing, and can't make it back to shore, that inflated wing will be easily spotted by a rescue plane. If you deflate you are trusting in the strength of your arms. If you leave it inflated you have hope of rescue, you have hope that the wind comes up and you can paddle since the inflated wing has almost no drag. Don't deflate!

This happens with kiters too. They get pushed out to sea, the beach is miles away, then they full release their kite to make a swim for it and die. Keep your kite inflated, it makes a rescue simple and easy. A plane can spot an inflated kite from 5 miles away. A plane can not even see a swimmer's head bobbing in the ocean from 1000 meters away. Never deflate!

It should be illegal to show self rescues where you deflate your kite when the wind dies. Just turn the kite in the U position and paddle from inside it.
These users thanked the author edt for the post:
juandesooka (Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

User avatar
jkrug
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:17 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 200 lbs
Gear: stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby jkrug » Wed May 25, 2022 9:55 pm

edt wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 2:33 pm
jkrug wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:20 pm
some keep saying 'use the wing' to help you get back. if there is no wind anymore, the wing is only a burden, not a help.
The wind dies. Then it might come back again. If you deflate your wing, ...
i wasn't suggesting deflating the wing. i would never do that out there. i was just responding to those who suggested using the wing to help power you back to shore, when the reality is if the wind dies off that much, it becomes more of a burden, something you basically have to carry (or tow) with you. of course if the wind just drops off enough to keep you off foil, then sure, use it as a wind paddle. but i consider that more of a pain in the ass than a 'self rescue' situation.

User avatar
bragnouff
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: New Brighton
Gear: Alkita boards
Zeeko Slash/AirWave/Scrambler
Spitfire XLW/ XXLW. GoFoil Kai/Iwa
GK Trix
FS Peak4
HB Legion
Ypsilon
...
Brand Affiliation: GK enthusiast
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Contact:

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby bragnouff » Wed May 25, 2022 10:19 pm

Different levels of wind dropping

If wind drops to 7-10kts, you're unable to get flying again, but you can still grovel standing up on a large board, and still a chance to hold your ground or even go upwind a little bit.
If it drops below 6-7kts, the wing isn't self supported anymore, and the lack of pull will make it hard to keep your balance on the board, even more so in chop. Sitting on the board makes all of that effortless, and the wing can still produce enough pull for going mostly downwind like that.
If it drops below 3-4 kts, there won't be much progress with the wing, and it might be more efficient to paddle and drag the wing behind you.
These users thanked the author bragnouff for the post (total 2):
Peter_Frank (Thu May 26, 2022 9:04 am) • edt (Thu May 26, 2022 2:09 pm)
Rating: 13.33%

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1998
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: North Kiteboarding, Moses Hydrofoil, Mystic, Indiana SUP
Brand Affiliation: North Kiteboarding, Moses Hydrofoil, Mystic, Indiana SUP
Location: Fuerteventura
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 264 times
Contact:

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby gmb13 » Thu May 26, 2022 1:29 pm

bragnouff wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 10:19 pm
Different levels of wind dropping

If wind drops to 7-10kts, you're unable to get flying again, but you can still grovel standing up on a large board, and still a chance to hold your ground or even go upwind a little bit.
If it drops below 6-7kts, the wing isn't self supported anymore, and the lack of pull will make it hard to keep your balance on the board, even more so in chop. Sitting on the board makes all of that effortless, and the wing can still produce enough pull for going mostly downwind like that.
If it drops below 3-4 kts, there won't be much progress with the wing, and it might be more efficient to paddle and drag the wing behind you.
Hi Peter.

You would be surprised how much progress you can make with the wing (if upside down like in my video) in 3-4 Knots, but yes once withing 100m of the shore I would start paddling. But usually even 4 knots is enough wind to flip the wing over you when paddling in onshore wind. So I usually prefer to use it as a sail in that case.

--
Gunnar

ronnie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby ronnie » Thu May 26, 2022 1:44 pm

If a relative beginner is out in light onshore breeze of say 10knots and it swings to direct offshore 4 knots - what is the solution?

If you try to paddle in and are making 1 knot, you are paddling into 5 knots with a wing of '5m or 6m' thick leading edge trailing behind.

User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 44612
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 95 kg
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Favorite Beaches: same
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 1379 times
Contact:

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby Toby » Thu May 26, 2022 2:06 pm

I had this situation, offshore wind, released my kite to 5th, and tried to swim in…after 1 min of swimming and didn’t move an inch, I felt a force wanting to suck my down…big loss of energy. Pulled myself to the kite on the 5th and laid onto the kite waiting for rescue.

Sure, wing is different, just saying oaddling against offshore wind with a wing inflated might don’t get you back…

So guess it all depends on the situation to decide what’s best to do.

User avatar
juandesooka
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1175
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:05 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Sooke, BC, Canada
Style: Canada's Kai Lenny (in my mind)
Gear: Ocean Rodeo wings&kites / GoFoil
Brand Affiliation: Open to offers
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby juandesooka » Fri May 27, 2022 12:29 am

ronnie wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:44 pm
If a relative beginner is out in light onshore breeze of say 10knots and it swings to direct offshore 4 knots - what is the solution?

If you try to paddle in and are making 1 knot, you are paddling into 5 knots with a wing of '5m or 6m' thick leading edge trailing behind.
It would be the same thing as surfing in offshore winds and the surf dies, requiring you need to paddle in. If it is blowing 10kt offshore, and you can paddle 5kt, it will slow you down but doesn't mean you will be moving backwards. You make slow forward progress and you get to the beach.

But the standard rule applies: never ride out farther than you can paddle or swim back. If you are a weak paddler, stay close to shore. Especially in a place where rescue options are limited or non-existent. And if you are in a cold water location, dress for the swim, not the riding.

User avatar
bragnouff
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: New Brighton
Gear: Alkita boards
Zeeko Slash/AirWave/Scrambler
Spitfire XLW/ XXLW. GoFoil Kai/Iwa
GK Trix
FS Peak4
HB Legion
Ypsilon
...
Brand Affiliation: GK enthusiast
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Contact:

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby bragnouff » Fri May 27, 2022 1:09 am

gmb13 wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:29 pm
bragnouff wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 10:19 pm
Different levels of wind dropping

If wind drops to 7-10kts, you're unable to get flying again, but you can still grovel standing up on a large board, and still a chance to hold your ground or even go upwind a little bit.
If it drops below 6-7kts, the wing isn't self supported anymore, and the lack of pull will make it hard to keep your balance on the board, even more so in chop. Sitting on the board makes all of that effortless, and the wing can still produce enough pull for going mostly downwind like that.
If it drops below 3-4 kts, there won't be much progress with the wing, and it might be more efficient to paddle and drag the wing behind you.
You would be surprised how much progress you can make with the wing (if upside down like in my video) in 3-4 Knots, but yes once withing 100m of the shore I would start paddling. But usually even 4 knots is enough wind to flip the wing over you when paddling in onshore wind. So I usually prefer to use it as a sail in that case.

--
Gunnar
To be honest, I am not too sure at what wind threshold paddling becomes more efficient, if it's 4kts or 2kts. In any case, you should of course first try to use the sail to make progress, and if you realize that you're not moving, then fall back to paddling.

The wing in tow has much less drag than a kite. Partially because it's half the size, and maybe it sits differently on the water due to dihedral. Depending on how you tow it, you can also reduce the wet area a fair bit. When paddling into the wind, I like to hold the center strut between my feet, handles facing down, you can almost keep the wing airborne when doing it by bending your knees. You can also short leash it to the waist, so that the leading edge of the wing rests on your bum or legs.
These users thanked the author bragnouff for the post:
SENDIT! (Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:41 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 11350
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 539 times
Been thanked: 707 times

Re: Winging and Self Rescue

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 28, 2022 6:14 pm

Sorry, wrong thread...


Return to “Wingsurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests