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Too Heavy to Wingfoil

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:28 pm

Interesting question - but to the claim:

"From what people say, big boards suffer a lot with wind interference..."

I can say it is bull...

Yes, if you are ONE rider, having a small and a big board, of course above claim is correct - especially long huge beginnerboards.
But for two different weight riders? No.

Actually I would say heavier riders can have less wind interference than lighter riders, everything else being equal.

Say you have an average weight 75 kg and a "strong" rider 150 kg.

The big rider will use a bigger foilwing (but not twice as big) and a bigger wing (but not twice as big), and lets say they use a 75 and 150 litre board to match their weight.

Riding in the same wind, but the big rider with a lot more pressure on the board, and more power available, and a bigger wing - should "feel" wind interference the same way, if board "area" is doubled?

But it is not, a twice as big (volume) board is wider and thicker and a tad longer, thus not that much more area/drag.

So one could conclude the heavier rider will feel wind interference on the bigger board LESS than the light rider, one could claim :rollgrin:

Just like he/she has less relative "body drag" because weighing twice as much, does not mean twice as much "body" area.

As with the board, "volume" increases a lot, but dimensions height x width x thickness only increases slightly.

It is not that simple I know, but in my eyes I can not see any reason why the bigger board should be a nuisance for heavy riders, on the contrary.

T.ex say we got a cube 5 cm on each side.
It has a volume of 5x5x5 = 125 cm3 and a total surface of 5x5x6 = 150 cm2.

A twice as "heavy" cube 250 cm3 would be 6.3 cm on each side, and surface area 238 cm2.

Meaning the 100 % heavier cube (body) will have 238/150 = 1.59 meaning 59 % more surface only, instead of 100 %.

If it was a sphere, it would be roughly the same, double volume (weight) only 57 % (Pi/2) more surface area.

Just to give you the idea and some food for thought, why I DONT think it is correct that a bigger board for a heavier rider is no good - just opposite in fact....

There are many other aspects and parameters in this so not that simple, but just to show my point :D


It is correct though, you need stiffer and stronger and bigger gear, yes, and some gear is not sufficiently strong for say 150 kg.

8) Peter

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby JakeFarley » Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:27 pm

Strong rider 150kg??? That's one big man or mama - 330lbs. !! :D (I know, it was just a theoretical example).

I have a friend that is 280lbs. and is learning to wing foil. His board is 140l, 7.5m wing and I believe that the foil is > 2500cm2.

I would say no one is too heavy if you have the right setup/equipment.

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby Lamilu » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 am

If it is true that “board windage” is a mith and the “heavy” is tall enough to handle the 8m wing…ok then

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby pākihiroa » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:44 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:28 pm
Just like he/she has less relative "body drag" because weighing twice as much, does not mean twice as much "body" area.
Thank you Peter. I'm happy to blame that factor, rather than lack of skill, the next time some heavyweight leaves me in their wake. In windsurfing, light weights have the advantage for early planing. However, for sure, it is the big lads that are setting the speed records.

It would be interesting to know what fractions of the total drag comes from each of the components, ie: underwater foil/mast, hand wing, board, and rider. Presumably foil drag is still the main component - Speed gains are still being made with newer foil designs. However what happens when the foils design plateaus ? Are there gains to be made by paying attention to the other components ? Should we all start wearing Lycra ? :-?

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby foursquare » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:48 pm

If you have decent wind at your spot, i don't see why you can't make it work with the right equipment.

This might also be helpful: https://www.facebook.com/groups/wingfoilingforbigdawgs

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby StellaBlu » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:35 pm

It would be interesting to know what fractions of the total drag comes from each of the components, ie: underwater foil/mast, hand wing, board, and rider.
There is a chart that explains exactly this at 1:30

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:58 am

I am 242lbs and almost 60 ..... I started in 2019 on the 8'0 Naish Hover. I had the original Naish XXL foil and had no issues getting going in 20 knots on the original 5 metre Duotone.

These days I ride the AXIS 1120 (2100cm2), a 125L One Ocean board, 6.5m DLAB Unit on 10 knot days and I am able to get going without too many issues.

The smallest board I ride is a 51 litre Slingshot Skywalker with the AXIS 1120 normally in 15+ knots ......

Weight only becomes a limitation in 15 knots or below when you are first learning. Primarily you are working super hard to unstick the board from the water. Once you get some experience, then even 10 to 15 knots is fun.

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby Lamilu » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:56 am

Encoraging…
What is the “best” size for the “big” guy in 15 kn…
The 6.5 wing?
Or a 6?
I just saw a Cabrinha Crosswing V3…size 7…and the “massive” diameter of the leading edge scared the hell out of me…godzilla size…6.5 PSI
What wings have smaller diameter to a higher PSI in big size…say a 6?

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby JZB » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:53 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:58 am
I am 242lbs and almost 60 ..... I started in 2019 on the 8'0 Naish Hover. I had the original Naish XXL foil and had no issues getting going in 20 knots on the original 5 metre Duotone.

These days I ride the AXIS 1120 (2100cm2), a 125L One Ocean board, 6.5m DLAB Unit on 10 knot days and I am able to get going without too many issues.

The smallest board I ride is a 51 litre Slingshot Skywalker with the AXIS 1120 normally in 15+ knots ......

Weight only becomes a limitation in 15 knots or below when you are first learning. Primarily you are working super hard to unstick the board from the water. Once you get some experience, then even 10 to 15 knots is fun.

Stats:
67 Yrs 6"4' 238 lbs 130 L board SAB 899 999 1250
Wings Strike 8m DLab 6.5 5.5

Coming to the conclusion that I don't need the 8 m anymore. Today I was out in Max 15 mph average 12 and could foil with 6.5 DLab 1250 Moses. Downside is the 1250 is slow. It seems I can pump more efficiently with the 6.5 than the 8, plus the smaller wing is more pleasant to use. Also tried the new Slick 7 SLS today, I saw no advantage over the Dlab and went back to the 6.5 m. I can not get going sub 15 mph on the 999.

The differences here are nuances here and having others to compare notes with very helpful. Looking to drop down to a 110 board soon. Also pumping skills are critical and I constantly try alternative methods to get on foil.

The 8 m is heavy and big and waiting for a gust can wear you down. Would like to understand why I believe the 6.5 m DLab feels more effective than 8m.

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Re: Too Heavy to Wingfoil

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:43 am

JZB wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:53 am
bigtone667 wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:58 am
I am 242lbs and almost 60 ..... I started in 2019 on the 8'0 Naish Hover. I had the original Naish XXL foil and had no issues getting going in 20 knots on the original 5 metre Duotone.

These days I ride the AXIS 1120 (2100cm2), a 125L One Ocean board, 6.5m DLAB Unit on 10 knot days and I am able to get going without too many issues.

The smallest board I ride is a 51 litre Slingshot Skywalker with the AXIS 1120 normally in 15+ knots ......

Weight only becomes a limitation in 15 knots or below when you are first learning. Primarily you are working super hard to unstick the board from the water. Once you get some experience, then even 10 to 15 knots is fun.

Stats:
67 Yrs 6"4' 238 lbs 130 L board SAB 899 999 1250
Wings Strike 8m DLab 6.5 5.5

Coming to the conclusion that I don't need the 8 m anymore. Today I was out in Max 15 mph average 12 and could foil with 6.5 DLab 1250 Moses. Downside is the 1250 is slow. It seems I can pump more efficiently with the 6.5 than the 8, plus the smaller wing is more pleasant to use. Also tried the new Slick 7 SLS today, I saw no advantage over the Dlab and went back to the 6.5 m. I can not get going sub 15 mph on the 999.

The differences here are nuances here and having others to compare notes with very helpful. Looking to drop down to a 110 board soon. Also pumping skills are critical and I constantly try alternative methods to get on foil.

The 8 m is heavy and big and waiting for a gust can wear you down. Would like to understand why I believe the 6.5 m DLab feels more effective than 8m.
I retired my 7m Slick and now use the 6.5 DLAB as my big wing. I only use the 1120 foil wing and change up the fuselage length and rear wing to get variation.

Learn the stink bug start. It will make the 110 litre board really easy to get up on.


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