Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Forum for kitesurfers
iwave
Medium Poster
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:30 am
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: Coyote Point, CA
Style: Freestyle, starting foiling
Gear: Airush Diamond V1 7, 9 and 12. Blankforce MK5 & Advisory
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby iwave » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:47 am

I was wondering if anyone has some feedback on the North Pulse vs. the Dice (or Union) for unhooking and looping.
Here, I am talking specifically about non-handlepass unhooking like Railey, backrool, frontroll, S-Bend, F16, etc.
I tried the Dice and the Airush Union. They were both relatively good at unhooking but they both have wide and slow loops, with a lot of bar pressure. And they don't catch you easily, unless you go high and/or have perfect line tension.
It seems the Pulse would be pretty good at unhooking too (from what I can read). But I am not sure if it loops wide and slow, with a lot of bar pressure (like the Dice and the Union), or if it loops tight and fast, with lighter bar pressure?
Another question:
What do you think is the difference in terms of feeling and day-to-day practice between the Pulse and a pure C-kite (like the Vegas or the Razor)?
Some people say there is nothing better for unhooking and people should really use C-kite more often. But other people say C-kite are too radical, too specialized, and only good at one thing in specific conditions.

X-Fly
Rare Poster
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:50 pm
Weight: 65
Local Beach: La Palmyre
Style: Freestyle / big air
Gear: Naish Dash 11m/9m
Ozone Enduro V2 7m
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby X-Fly » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:41 pm

I had ridden several open C kites, like FX, Dice, Dash, Enduro, Pulse...
For this kind of kites, the kiteloop is generally more powerful but it catches you along the loop so you are almost sure that the loop finishes well :) Perhaps the FX and the Enduro are less powerful during the loop with a better hangtime too, and turn a bit faster. It is often due to the shape, if you want loops turn tight and fast, perhaps the orbit or the evo could be better, because the shape is more open but keeps short briddle without pulley. But these kites are not as good for unhooked freestyle (less pop & slack). That's why crossover open C kites are generally a compromise for freestyle and big air, but they are not the best kites for each discipline. But they are a good direct feeling in bar, very close from a C-kite.
These users thanked the author X-Fly for the post:
iwave (Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:03 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

User avatar
elmarco
Medium Poster
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:28 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby elmarco » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:44 pm

completely disagree that the union has high bar pressure. quite the opposite, it's pretty far on the light bar pressure side.
I loop and unhook on the union and love it. it always catches you.
What size were you on? I generally only unhook on the 12m, and only loop 9 or smaller.
Some low 12m loops, but nothing big.

Radja
Rare Poster
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:32 am
Kiting since: 2020
Weight: 69
Local Beach: Dahab
Style: FS, BA
Gear: Dice 2022 9, 12
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby Radja » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:58 pm

Wide and slow loops on Dice? You are doing something wrong for sure ) I have very compact loops with Dice 9 and 12 and M bar even with medium lines setup and with kiteloop setup 9 is superfast.

iwave
Medium Poster
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:30 am
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: Coyote Point, CA
Style: Freestyle, starting foiling
Gear: Airush Diamond V1 7, 9 and 12. Blankforce MK5 & Advisory
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby iwave » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:15 pm

elmarco wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:44 pm
completely disagree that the union has high bar pressure. quite the opposite, it's pretty far on the light bar pressure side.
I loop and unhook on the union and love it. it always catches you.
What size were you on? I generally only unhook on the 12m, and only loop 9 or smaller.
Some low 12m loops, but nothing big.
I was on the 2022 Union 12m on the low bar pressure setting. I agree that I would not qualify it high bar pressure (the Dice 2022 is), but it's definitely not light bar pressure. I would qualify it as medium +. I did not try the 9m. But to me the 12m looped wide and slow.
After trying it for 1 hour my elbows were sore.
BTW, are you referring to the 2022 Union? Kites may change quite drastically from year to year.
With all the kites I tried, I don't think the 2022 12m Union is a well looping kite (at least not in my universe).
I am glad it works for you though.
Last edited by iwave on Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6565
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 287 times
Been thanked: 353 times

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby edt » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:38 pm

I'll never go back to c kites. the main reason is their terrible upwind and relaunch. So for instance on the dice or rpm you might get 20 tricks in an hour due to the great upwind and easy relaunch while on a pure C kite you might only get 10 tricks in that same hour. So much time wasted! The dice is one of the best unhooking kites you can buy, though I admit I like the rpm a little better. I think for you, and this is just my personal opinion, you want to buy 2 seperate kites. You want to get that dice for unhooking and then also get an evo for gentle and quick kite loops. just dont buy a c kite unless you want to spend an extra minute or two every time you drop the kite while you're learning a new trick while you relaunch. In loops there are two things one thing is how well does it catch you? If you are doing megaloops this is pretty important. The dice catches you every single time. The second thing is how much yank. If you are doing low loops and don't want much yank that's why you have the evo. Of course the c kite has the best pop but it's not worth it. no comment on airush that's one brand I haven't tried. haven't tried the pulse yet, I'll demo it later this year I think
Last edited by edt on Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
These users thanked the author edt for the post:
iwave (Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:44 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

iwave
Medium Poster
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:30 am
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: Coyote Point, CA
Style: Freestyle, starting foiling
Gear: Airush Diamond V1 7, 9 and 12. Blankforce MK5 & Advisory
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby iwave » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:42 pm

Radja wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:58 pm
Wide and slow loops on Dice? You are doing something wrong for sure ) I have very compact loops with Dice 9 and 12 and M bar even with medium lines setup and with kiteloop setup 9 is superfast.
There you go, we have a 2-year old expert, with definitive opinions and telling me I am doing something wrong :lol:
How many kites have tried in 2 years?
I tried the Dice in previous versions and it was quite different than this year.
I was on the 2022 12m Dice on the soft setting (low bar pressure setting).
To me, the Dice 2022 12m is high bar pressure (by a margin because it was hard even on the soft setting).
I am used to ride with my hands in the middle of the bar, with 1 finger over the center line. With most kites I can still steer in this position. I could not reliably steer the Dice in this position (I could not apply enough force). I think it is designed this way so it is very stable, but it results in high bar pressure.
For looping, I really had to crank the bar hard to loop properly.
Previous versions of the Dice were not like that (back in 2016/2017), it was very soft, very agile but with poor boosting ability.
The 12m 2022 was the opposite, high bar pressure, (relatively) slow, but good boosting performance.
If on your scale, the Dice 12m 2022 is fast with fast loops, that's great! But not on my scale. I am glad it works for you though.
BTW, my post was not about the Dice. The Dice was used as a reference point (for those who tried the 2022).

Radja
Rare Poster
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:32 am
Kiting since: 2020
Weight: 69
Local Beach: Dahab
Style: FS, BA
Gear: Dice 2022 9, 12
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby Radja » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:16 pm

iwave wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:42 pm
Radja wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:58 pm
Wide and slow loops on Dice? You are doing something wrong for sure ) I have very compact loops with Dice 9 and 12 and M bar even with medium lines setup and with kiteloop setup 9 is superfast.
There you go, we have a 2-year old expert, with definitive opinions and telling me I am doing something wrong :lol:
How many kites have tried in 2 years?
I tried the Dice in previous versions and it was quite different than this year.
I was on the 2022 12m Dice on the soft setting (low bar pressure setting).
To me, the Dice 2022 12m is high bar pressure (by a margin because it was hard even on the soft setting).
I am used to ride with my hands in the middle of the bar, with 1 finger over the center line. With most kites I can still steer in this position. I could not reliably steer the Dice in this position (I could not apply enough force). I think it is designed this way so it is very stable, but it results in high bar pressure.
For looping, I really had to crank the bar hard to loop properly.
Previous versions of the Dice were not like that (back in 2016/2017), it was very soft, very agile but with poor boosting ability.
The 12m 2022 was the opposite, high bar pressure, (relatively) slow, but good boosting performance.
If on your scale, the Dice 12m 2022 is fast with fast loops, that's great! But not on my scale. I am glad it works for you though.
BTW, my post was not about the Dice. The Dice was used as a reference point (for those who tried the 2022).
The years is not so important if I have skill and understanding I could give advices. If you are on the same level last 10 years you can’t. I start doing loops just couple month ago and I can do it now in the apex of high jump with downloop on landing and almost 100% ride away. Anyway I think it is important to separate two things bar pressure and yank. The Dice have a lot of bar pressure that’s true and it is very comfortable you always know where is your kite in the trick and what is he doing and going to do. But if you pull bar hard enough loops could be really compact with super low yank even if you do that loops in the power zone of wind window. I would compare it with GTS. May be on GTS it is easier to do a compact loop but on Dice you could do the same small radius and low power yank. For example using Orbit you could do loops way easier than with a Dice in terms of bar pressure but the radius and yank wouldn’t be better. I still don’t go for megaloops just one or twice but I did a lot of compact loops high in the air in front of me and from that experience I have a strong feeling Dice would be very comfortable for megaloops also. Just in last months I tried GTS and XR, Reach, Orbit and some other kites I already don’t remember. All modern kites have perfect performance some of them better for one some for another it is more question of taste. Choice by color is not a mistake for sure )

iwave
Medium Poster
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:30 am
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: Coyote Point, CA
Style: Freestyle, starting foiling
Gear: Airush Diamond V1 7, 9 and 12. Blankforce MK5 & Advisory
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby iwave » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:22 pm

BTW, I tried both the Dice 2022 12m and the Union 2022 12m within 1 week interval.
To me, the Union was better because it provided similar unhooking and boosting performance than the Dice but with lower bar pressure and slightly faster loops.
They provided very similar feeling except for the 2 aspects I just mentioned.
These users thanked the author iwave for the post:
edt (Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:31 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6565
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 287 times
Been thanked: 353 times

Re: Pulse vs. Dice (or Union)

Postby edt » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:33 pm

Whatever you get, let us know. I need a new wakestyle kite my old one is getting pretty used up.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests