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Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

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evan
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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby evan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:28 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:47 am
The Brummell just stops the bury working out when the line isn't under load.

So, both.

IIRC the "correct" bury length is 75x line diameter.

https://www.animatedknots.com
That's the rule of thumb indeed, but from testing splices to breaking strength the minimal length for sk99 lines in 1.1 and 1.7mm was 100mm in both cases and going for a longer splice improved the breaking strength a few percent.
jbrodin wrote:
Thanks!!! Got it. Are you the Evan that sells line sets referred to in the other reply?
correct, website is www.infexion.eu

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:45 am

Personally, i take a factor of 100 (for long burry of thiin lines, hence 10 cm) and about half for locked brumel.

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby Kitemenn » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:14 am

sflinux wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:30 am
For making bridle line, I prefer the zacher knot as you can tune it to length:
https://ericedttaylor.wordpress.com/201 ... -knot-htm/
For kite line I like the long bury. If you are worried about line lengths, just make custom pigtails with a loop on one end and a knot on the other. Tune your pigtails so all lines are equal. If a line snaps, make a new pigtail to tune your lines back to length.
Isn't any sort of knot in your splicing reducing the breaking strength?

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:27 am

evan wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:28 am
That's the rule of thumb indeed, but from testing splices to breaking strength the minimal length for sk99 lines in 1.1 and 1.7mm was 100mm in both cases and going for a longer splice improved the breaking strength a few percent.
Good point, I think it was actually the minimum recommended bury, should have said that.

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby sflinux » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:23 am

Kitemenn wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:14 am
Isn't any sort of knot in your splicing reducing the breaking strength?
The knot is there to keep the tail from slipping. There is no load on the knot itself.
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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby darippah » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:49 am

Question

What if you were to let the end of the splice exit the splice so that the tip is not buried, and not tapered

Would that cause the lines to snap similar to how a non- tapered line wears out the line at the end of the splice?

Asking for a lazy friend....

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby Kitemenn » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:14 am

darippah wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:49 am
Question

What if you were to let the end of the splice exit the splice so that the tip is not buried, and not tapered

Would that cause the lines to snap similar to how a non- tapered line wears out the line at the end of the splice?

Asking for a lazy friend....
It's all about the transition which in this case will still remain from double line to single line which will cause it to be a weak point. Tapering results in a smoother transition and will therefore avoid a weak point

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby Herman » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:40 am

As well as bumps and tight radii, also try to avoid, where possible, anything that causes a hinge point. Leaving a tail out might cause a hinge point. It would work, if locked, but wear rate would probably be higher. See also threads on using a running splice as an adjustment on trims and mixers!

Eg: shrink fit at the loop is probably not a good idea.

PS Jmach, I use polyester sail thread, V30 fine work, V69 for pigs/gen repairs, V92 for heavy duty Dacron repairs, assuming I have remembered the numbers correctly! Hand sown. Sometimes I use two needles, one on each end of thread.
Last edited by Herman on Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby jbrodin » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:20 pm

faklord wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:39 pm
The question should really be “lock stitch or brummel”.
As others have intimated the strength comes from the long bury, in both cases.
The lock stitch or brummel are just a mechanisms to prevent an unloaded bury from shaking loose.
The taper reduces stress concentration and gives some improvement on initial strength but more I importantly reduces the effect of fatigue over time, from flapping lines.
Good point. What is the verdict? Does the brummel reduce breacking strenght in itself, compared to a long byry with the same length buried?

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby edt » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:21 am

jbrodin wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:20 pm


Good point. What is the verdict? Does the brummel reduce breacking strenght in itself, compared to a long byry with the same length buried?
The tests I trust show a difference of maybe 1% weaker from Brummel compared to straight splice. It's more important to do long bury since a short bury can weaken the splice by 50%

Use whatever you like the simple splice is only a tiny bit stronger just make it correctly that makes a huge difference
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