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Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby Adventure Logs » Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:55 pm

If the front is collapsing, and this is sudden, you have a tangle or knot somewhere in the A level in the front. The Sonic is VERY sensitive to bridle length changes(as do all high AR kites). I would go through every individual line first in the A level then B level to look for tangles or anything that would shorten the lines. After that I would start measuring the A level starting at the center of the collapse and work my way out. i'm putting my money on a knot somewhere since this wasn't a gradual issue but a sudden one.

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby Herman » Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:32 pm

Or rather than a LE collapse …….instead is it more like……you pull for a direction change tensioning the top half of the kite, this slows the top half of the kite. The bottom half of the kite then flys around the old top half as the kite rotates to the new direction. You then transfer the line tension to the other side of the bar to check the new top half releasing the tension on the old top half/new bottom half. This new bottom half which is not tensioned then collapses and in bad cases causes the kite to taco. Difficult to describe but does it ring any bells??

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby keegster17 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:47 pm

It seems to be happening a lower speeds, I don't recall going at a decent speed and it happening.

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby Herman » Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:16 am

I am dealing with something, perhaps, similar, on a 15m Aurora 3. The cloth seems very good on this kite so I don’t think it is air pressure but I will seal the blow off just to maximise inflation. It happens as described in my previous post. I have already added a little Z and this did not help much. To me it looks like it may be that when the lines are slacked the change in shape causes the very slow air flow to depart resulting in a sudden loss of lift that allows gravity to take over and the bottom half falls into a tacho. As the kite does not have an adjustable mixer I have slaved in some extra adjustable lines in B and C just larked headed to the first bridle cluster and a running splice looped through the pulley, saves taking mixer apart and if adjustment fails the load just goes back on the original line. This will allow me to progressively take camber out of the wing to see if it improves. The lines are marked so it is easy to measure how much adjustment is pulled through the splice.
Have not been able to test yet because of weather, tides and target rich beach environment but, if you want, I will let you know if I find anything useful!

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby lightandfrost » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:12 am

Before you conduct a long line audit suggest you do these three simple checks.

1. Fly the kite overhead and check the tension of the emergency release line. Lengthen the depower system fully and make sure some slack exists in the emergency release line. If the line is too tight you may be activating the emergency release system.

2. Fly the kite overhead and with a helper put the kite down and quickly roll up one tip keeping pressure on the skin surface or monocoque structure of the kite. If the skin surface bulges out even slightly there may be internal damage.

3. Fly the kite overhead and with a helper put the kite down and see how long the kite retains its air pressure. If the kite deflates quickly look for damage. If the skin has become porrus seal with Silicone and white spirit(Naptha). There are articles in the forums on sealing. Suggest you avoid Acetone.


A complete line audit solved our problem of sudden stall on a Sonic 2. Refer to the link below.

viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2410952

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby kitexpert » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 pm

I had couple weeks ago 18m Sonic3 under work for similar issues. I must say LMT is a bit like a mess, it is only partial and it bundles the errors of different parts of the kite together. In some or probably most cases this is ok but when you really have to dig deeper it is a PITA. You should have a clear view where the errors are

Main issues of that kite were usual: sparepart line was shrunk 5cm and also Z were shrunk. When FS doesn't have adjustments for A and Z this error is compensated in flying lines/bar position. In this case owner of the kite has had to adjust flying lines at the depowerline adjuster so much bar movement range was shortened to ridiculously small. One thing leads to another even though it didn't come clear to me why there was a need to adjust flying lines so much.

Also adjusting range at the mixer was almost completely used for C, mainly to compensate shrunk sparepart line(s) I guess. It was a bit suspicious why it was used so much.

I did some comparisons in the bridle and there was good symmetry and lines of same lenght were pretty much same. Z is different so it can't be measured by comparison. However thin primary (and secondary IIRC) were just checked by stretching iand there was some soft feel. But becasue these lines are not very long probably deviations there weren't that big. LMT adjustment doesn't include these lines

If I had that kite I'd check and adjust every component of the kite separately and leave LMT aside completely.

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby Breze » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:46 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 pm
I had couple weeks ago 18m Sonic3 under work for similar issues. I must say LMT is a bit like a mess, it is only partial and it bundles the errors of different parts of the kite together.
Yes the last lines to the hard points are not included in the Lmt. But you can make the Lmt with the knots at the split of the last lines. They work like the black marks of the Lmt. The outer tip section can't be compared, but the middle section until am4
In some or probably most cases this is ok but when you really have to dig deeper it is a PITA. You should have a clear view where the errors are


I adjust Z with a pigtail above the mixer. I measure the diff of a and z at the Lmt black marks and at the middle section
.
Also adjusting range at the mixer was almost completely used for C, mainly to compensate shrunk sparepart line(s) I guess. It was a bit suspicious why it was used so much.


T[media]his was also the case with a 13m , only few cm left of C sleve. I think then it's time for change. Spares are in the rep kit[/media].

I did some comparisons in the bridle and there was good symmetry and lines of same lenght were pretty much same.
Same here with the 13m.Z is different so it can't be measured by comparison.Dont understand this. Side to side, is possible? However thin primary (and secondary IIRC) were just checked by stretching iand there was some soft feel. But becasue these lines are not very long probably deviations there weren't that big. LMT adjustment doesn't include these lines

What do you mean with IIRC?a,b,c,br?
The trimming of the S3 works much faster for me than with S2. The comparable knots works well for Lmt , same with the Souls and Ozone bridles
.

If I had that kite I'd check and adjust every component of the kite separately and leave LMT aside completely.

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Re: Flysurfer Sonic 3 falling out of sky

Postby kitexpert » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:40 am

IIRC = If I Remember Correct. I'n not sure if there is one or two levels of bridle above LMT. Anyway these lines are thin and they shrink if and when not loaded enough in use. To stretch them back is a bit nervous because if you pull too hard it is possible to break them

Adding a pigtail for adjustment for Z is a good idea IMO. I've always had one in my own kites, not only because of countering possible shrinkage but to adjust brakes to my taste. For instance Hyperlink has an adjustment for Z.

Spare part lines of that kite didn't look too worn out but because they had shrunk so much replacing them could be very much reasonable

PS. Please don't use that color in text, very hard to read
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