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Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:21 pm

taiguy wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:37 pm


They just announced aluminum masts using their fuselage adapters. I'm likely going to order one in 70cm for the shallow bay riding of places like South Padre Island, TX. Buying multiple short masts sounds terrible to me. Buying 1 short mast and then using it across multiple brands/setups sounds slightly less awful.
Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting a Cedrus to age my old 91 Moses mast but I think I will wait a little to see how this issue pans out. I mostly ride the 633/420 setup but was thinking of trying something new when I completely trash this 633 wing.

Do you live in SPI? I live there from Oct-May and I'm usually foiling at Isla. Not a fan of foiling the bay.

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby taiguy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:48 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:21 pm

Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting a Cedrus to age my old 91 Moses mast but I think I will wait a little to see how this issue pans out. I mostly ride the 633/420 setup but was thinking of trying something new when I completely trash this 633 wing.

Do you live in SPI? I live there from Oct-May and I'm usually foiling at Isla. Not a fan of foiling the bay.
We're in SPI April and November; mainly foiling jetties and ditch. Even with the occasional ventilation, it's worth moving off your 91 mast, it's just too flexy.

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby Adventure Logs » Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:09 pm

taiguy wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:48 pm
Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:21 pm

Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting a Cedrus to age my old 91 Moses mast but I think I will wait a little to see how this issue pans out. I mostly ride the 633/420 setup but was thinking of trying something new when I completely trash this 633 wing.

Do you live in SPI? I live there from Oct-May and I'm usually foiling at Isla. Not a fan of foiling the bay.
We're in SPI April and November; mainly foiling jetties and ditch. Even with the occasional ventilation, it's worth moving off your 91 mast, it's just too flexy.
Yea I know the flex is bad and I already vent a little with this mast due to some trailing edge damage. I'm curious if it's the little mast adapters that are causing the problem; at a certain water speed the turbulence gets to great and ventilates.

Next time you are down in SPI at the jetties look for a guy foiling with a Peak. That will be me. Come and say hi :-)

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby BayAreaKite » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:21 pm

It is not adapters. In some cases my adapters actually improve fluid flow around the mast/fuselage interface. Turbulent flow can actually stay attached to a surface longer than laminar flow. This is why golf balls have dimples. It could be laminar flow that's releasing, but the flow is constantly moving from laminar to turbulent and back depending on foil depth, AoA, speed, etc. As mentioned in my blog, ventilation is very complex and due to a variety of factors. Reports of ventilation are very rare, and while I would love to claim that Project Cedrus is immune, that is a very tall order to ask designers/engineers given the pace of evolution of this sport.
https://projectcedrus.com/cedrus-develo ... ntilation/

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby taiguy » Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:12 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:09 pm

Next time you are down in SPI at the jetties look for a guy foiling with a Peak. That will be me. Come and say hi :-)
Not sure I've seen a peak down there yet!

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby taiguy » Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:43 am

Kyle had designed some 3D printed mast fences, with the goal of disrupting the air bubble before it has a chance to make its way down to the wings.

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No real clue where on the mast is most effective, but I placed it fairly close to the fuselage. Also, because it's attached with sticky foam tape, mine isn't put on 100% straight, and it bends up a bit towards the trailing edge - this is what happens when you try to put it on before having morning coffee.

It works.

The number of ventilation induced crashes went down dramatically. I was still able to force it 3x throughout the day, but only when hiked over considerably, and at speed. Riding flat, no issues. Is there slightly more drag? Yes, but worthy tradeoff.
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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby IWantToFly » Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:00 am

I bought one but haven’t put it on yet. Good to know it is working! I’m a relatively new foiler so identifying whether one of my crashes is due to ventilation is hard to pin down. But I have certainly had some unexplained crashes so maybe I’m having some ventilation and the fence will help.

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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby jakemoore » Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:38 am

Would a rubber band work? Or a pinstripe?

What was the Zeeko trick for anti ventilation wings?
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Re: Moved from SAB/Moses Mast to Cedrus Mast

Postby taiguy » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:06 pm

some additional lessons learned. with older setups I learned to use tefgel or white lithium grease on all connections to prevent seizing, exacerbated by dissimilar metals. Kyle recommends using no grease on the stainless steel to stainless steel connections as parts may loosen up. I recently tried to remove my legacy moses (m6) adapter from the mast and it was stuck on good.

Image

I didn't realize how stuck until I rounded the bolt head. This is further complicated by the captured bolt design of the adapter. One of the bolt heads is completely hidden. If I had rounded that head first my only option would be to saw the aluminum adapter piece off. After rounding the head on the exposed bolt, I soaked both in PB Blaster for a few hours. It was pretty touch and go there but managed to remove both.

Image

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When we got back from our trip I did the same with my wife's setup but used tape to dam up the bolt heads so the pb blaster couldn't leak out. An overnight soak coupled with an impact driver and both came out without damage.

Given this experience I'm going back to using grease on my bolts and will just get in the habit of checking torque more regularly.

Also I can confirm that this wear stainless hex plus key has just enough length to reach the recessed bolt heads (unlike my go to Klein wrench).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X1R22K
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