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Tried a Lift e-foil today

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Trent hink
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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby Trent hink » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:44 pm

I'm a bit surprised nobody has come up with a gasoline-powered one yet.

It could be lighter weight, run time could be greater; and when you run out of power, it would take minutes, rather than hours, to re-fuel.

...probably half the cost, too...

Only major drawback would be all the damn noise it would make. :idea:

One of the problems might be the lack of any suitable mass-produced engine.

There is a reason that you don't see electric jet-skis on the market: even the cheapest underpowered jet-skis have around 60hp.

The Lift e-foil is better-powered than some of the current market offerings, but it only has a 2kw motor: less than 3 horsepower!
RRC1962 wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:45 am
Scared to pull the trigger after reading about battery problems. This thing could be a money pit after the warranty expires. Someone needs to come up with a G-Foil. I'd be all over a gas powered version. Battery tech is just not up to speed when it comes to high demand use. Depending on firmware, one dead cell can brick a $4000 battery. In our EV (car) one dead cell bricked the car.

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GregK
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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby GregK » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:13 am

Trent hink wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:44 pm
I'm a bit surprised ...

The Lift e-foil ... only has a 2kw motor: less than 3 horsepower![/u]
Not so. From page 23 of the Lift English user manual : " The motor maximum power output at shaft is 3,900 watts.

( https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0zji11ub ... pvo69vfpnu )

3.9 kW is 5.2 hp

Powerful enough to tow up a second foiler -

Trent hink
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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby Trent hink » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:43 am

I think they fudged the number, but I was never any good at numbers myself.

5 hp? The fucking thing could literally launch you into the air from a dead stop...

I've ridden one, and it can't do that...

Hell, when I was just a skinny little kid, I could just about get up water skiing behind an inflatable boat with a five hp motor, with my parents and two brothers inside...

An old-fashioned windsurfer moving at planning speed is really only using about 3/4 hp.

I once built an outrigger canoe that could go 8.5 mph with a Honda 2.3 hp motor, and even though it was pretty fast for it's size and weight, it was big, and nowhere near as light and efficient as a hydrofoil. The boat itself was around 186 lbs, at least double for what an e-foil should weigh, and totally without the effiency that a hydrofoil can add.

Nevertheless, what is needed is way less power than any conventional gasoline marine motor that might be adapted...

RRC1962
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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby RRC1962 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am

So I have a wing foiling lesson set up. They use Armstrong gear. Going to see how I make out with that. I figure I want to try the different foiling disciplines before pulling the trigger. Efoil still seems like the best just because it can be ridden anywhere anytime. Still need wind to wing foil but if I can do it in light wind that's a plus. I also already have some of the gear. I would buy a longer SUP style board so I can SUP or play in the surf as well as wing. If it turns out I need 10+ to foil with a wing it doesn't make much sense because I have kiteboard gear for that. I see guys out there in pretty low winds wing foiling so we'll see how it goes.

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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby Bille » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:08 am

Trent hink wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:44 pm
I'm a bit surprised nobody has come up with a gasoline-powered one yet.
...

Only major drawback would be all the damn noise it would make. :idea:
...
The Honda 4-stroke generator ; ya can't hardly even hear the thing , so I don't think
noise would be a problem. 2-strokes are Loud , even when muffled , I hate those
damn things , (unless it's on the front of my RC airplane) . LOL :lol:

Bille

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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby grigorib » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:00 pm

Internal combustion engines need air intake. Boards go under water quite a bit and I recall a video about how to get water out of motorized surfboard engine after it sucks it in. A horror show. I can see a jet-ski with a foil and an engine but it won’t be your 70 lbs thing you can fit into your vehicle assembled and carry it to the another floor when back home.

In US if your fun comes at rate of less than $1/minute - consider it cheap.
$12000 is paid off after 200 hours which is only 100 days on water.

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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby 4liner » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:18 pm

RRC1962 wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:07 pm


On second look, they are calling the 75cm mast 29".
Attachments
IMG_4909.JPG
This is Fliteboards 75cm mast

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elmarco
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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby elmarco » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:08 pm

RRC1962 wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:54 pm
elmarco wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:32 pm
A more affordable lift alternative, and ideal if you already have some foil gear:
https://lacroixboards.com/pages/efoil

I’ve ridden this , lift and waydoo.
It rides closer to a lift, much nicer than a waydoo.
Interesting concept. Planing the board must be challenging with that big box attached to the bottom of the board. Looks like they don't have much of a presence in the US. Also interesting how they can make a battery system, mast and motor for less than Lift sells a battery for.
I rode a prototype. The one in the videos is actually a prototype. The production version I believe just came in? So I imagine we'll start seeing videos pop up soon.
I was surprised the drag didn't affect it as much as I thought it would.
Also, I've also ridden a prototype board which drops the entire unit in from the bottom so it is flush with the board.

I had 2 of these prototypes on loan for a work beach party. It was tons of fun! 1 of them we had on a big SUP, everyone could ride it, it was great!
The 2nd we put on a smaller board for people to progress to.
tons of fun, and very accessible for everyone!

RRC1962
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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby RRC1962 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:57 am

I did an bpat session on a Armstrong 140L 6'5 board and it was pretty discouraging. The foil was all over the place in the prop wash making it just about impossible to get any stability trying to stand up. The board was also a bit of a sinker for me. They said the wing would after some stability and lift making it easier, so we'll see. Next lesson will be with a wing. Not sure how it will go on a board that I can barely kneel on.
Trent hink wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:44 pm
I'm a bit surprised nobody has come up with a gasoline-powered one yet.
I'd be a buyer. There are water cooled motors available in the RC boat industry.

https://www.bonzisports.com/product/zen ... ro-wt1048/

This one is 30cc, 3.7HP at 13000rpm. It would need to be geared down, but gearing down would increase torque and mitigate any drive train losses. Should be able to get plenty of power to the prop for an efoil. These motors have centrifugal clutches so at idle the prop would not spin. You would probably need a 3:1 reduction. Could do that in a planetary gearbox attached to the motor mounted vertically with a 1:1 right angle drive down at the prop. A flexible driveshaft might work also. Imagine a front mounted mast at about a 45 degree angle or whatever it needs to get the foil at the proper depth and fore/aft position. Motor would mount up front angled in line with the mast. The flex shaft would go from the motor gearbox down the mast and make a 45 to the prop. Not much torque there so a string trimmer shaft should work. I made a kayak motor once using a sting trimmer and it worked quite well.

For the guys that want to zen out on a silent ride, this isn't for them.

I'd have to build the board for this. I can't see retrofitting an existing board like you can do with an electric setup, Like Foil Drive. For that reason, electric is easier because the motor can be mounted underwater. I've looked into this as well. Motor and ESC can be had for about $300. A 6S 20AH LiPo battery is about 200. For an 18S system you would need 3 batteries in series. To double capacity you would parallel 3 more (total of 6 batteries for 40AH capacity) This is about the capacity of the Lift full range battery. Advantage here is that if you get a dead cell in one of the batteries, you toss it and buy another $200 battery. Another plus is that there would no on-board BMS. You use an RC LiPo balance charger and charge each 6S pack alone. I have a 4 station charger that will do four 20AH packs at a time. This could be mounted just like a Foil Drive or you could built a board, or cut open an existing board, and hide the electronics inside.

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Re: Tried a Lift e-foil today

Postby Adventure Logs » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:57 pm

RRC1962 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:57 am
I did an bpat session on a Armstrong 140L 6'5 board and it was pretty discouraging. The foil was all over the place in the prop wash making it just about impossible to get any stability trying to stand up. The board was also a bit of a sinker for me. They said the wing would after some stability and lift making it easier, so we'll see. Next lesson will be with a wing. Not sure how it will go on a board that I can barely kneel on.
Right behind the boat is a HORRIBLE way to learn to foil and you can see due to the prop wash. Much better to try to get a boom to put you off the side or at least attach it only to one side of the boat so it's a little offset. I know you want a big board now because it's easy but trust me, once you pass the hurdle of being able to foil for longer periods of time, you are going to want to go smaller.

I went down the road of thinking of building my own efoil but after quite a lot of research decided against it. Parts alone cost around 5k and I could never build something that would withstand my abuse. Also it would not be as modular as Flite or Waydoo and I didn't want to deal with tons of connections and weak connection points(another reason why I didn't go lift). I could see it being a fun project and having some satisfaction after it's complete but I wanted to be on the water now and not spend 6 months building and then another 6 troubleshooting and fine tuning.

Foiling is difficult. Kitefoiling in the beginning feels like balancing on a ball while flying a kite. It took my quite a while to really get the hang of it. Both my sister and brother-in-law got up on the second session with the Fliteboard and he had 0 board sports experience. Stick with it.



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