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Is this line too worn?

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evan
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby evan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:09 am

knyfe wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:51 am
Honestly it has been quite a while since I broke a line. Your line should last more than 1 1/2 year. My slingshots run for … portably 6-7isch years - and look great. My Naishs have quite some wear after 2-3 years. And I love to loop. My q- lines are still working after 10 year but these are now for foiling. Switch your line vendor.
Line life and wear is a really complicated topic, depending on so much variables that it is impossible put a number of years you can use them on it.

Things that influence line life the most (no particular order):
-Your weight
-riding crossed lines, loops, rotations, tacks, gybes
-line length, shorter = more wear due to a more sharp crossing
-storage, beach flapping, rubbing against something during travel
-how powered you ride

Someone that is only mowing the lawn in moderate winds and shallow waters, being very careful on their material, never ride with crossed lines and won't mind a snapped line as they never jump and can just walk back to the beach can do ages with a bar and lines.

On the other end you have the heavy big air riders going to Capetown for months on end, only riding lit, constantly looping where a broken line can mean death. Those riders shouldn't be surprised that a single line set won't survive their trip, let alone an entire year


Q lines indeed see less wear, but they have some drawbacks of their own to make them not desirable for everyone.

kitemancan
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby kitemancan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:11 pm

Always been my concern as well to snap a line. I think what the poster above makes the most sense. If you're flying high and looping I would change out the lines once you start seeing strands actually being cut. I don't think a little fuzziness is the end of the world as long as the lines aren't more then a year or two old. To me the replacement cost of the lines just isn't worth death looping 30+ ft in the air. Especially depending on the location. Your kite could be lost and that's usually a lot more expensive. Will be saving the old lines though.

evan
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby evan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:32 pm

kitemancan wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:11 pm
I don't think a little fuzziness is the end of the world as long as the lines aren't more then a year or two old.
Still talking about the line age in years, you should think in hours used ;)

Lines don't age sitting idle, stored dry and out of direct sunlight they won't age at all. The Dyneema fibers don't degrade over time at all, the ony degradation comes from abrasion when being used/handled. Even UV has little to no effect on Dyneema so it's perfectly fine to grab a 10 year new old stock (never used) line set that has been stored well.

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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby kitemancan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:09 pm

evan wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:32 pm
kitemancan wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:11 pm
I don't think a little fuzziness is the end of the world as long as the lines aren't more then a year or two old.
Still talking about the line age in years, you should think in hours used ;)

Lines don't age sitting idle, stored dry and out of direct sunlight they won't age at all. The Dyneema fibers don't degrade over time at all, the ony degradation comes from abrasion when being used/handled. Even UV has little to no effect on Dyneema so it's perfectly fine to grab a 10 year new old stock (never used) line set that has been stored well.
Was considering changing my comment to hours while I was writing it but was too far gone.

Herman
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby Herman » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:08 am

If I have understood correctly the op is asking about the flag/flying line. Arguably the standard of risk management should be higher for this line compared to other lines, as the impact of the risk arising is arguably greater. Simplistically if this line brakes you can’t simply qr to flag, instead the kite could be a lost and a risk to anybody downwind.

As an aside I have seen a number of flag lines fail but usually from wear in the lower section from the bar dugout. In the OP’s case it might be worth resplicing the ends if you want to get more life, perhaps just the one or two fronts and add longer wear pigs to compensate for the length. If the fraying is on the flag rather than fly line, just replace it?
Last edited by Herman on Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vakiter
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby vakiter » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:26 pm

here are the lines on my 'new' Flysurfer Infinity bar. i bought new in january.

the black lines are the front lines....

i also had a north navigator bar with similar wear. this new dyneema doesnt hold up to rubbing worth a shit. pathetic.
Attachments
2022-09-24 08.18.14.jpg

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vakiter
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby vakiter » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:30 pm

another shot , and a close up of one of the leaders worn where it comes out of the plastic.
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2022-09-28 12.50.12.jpg
2022-09-28 12.37.28.jpg

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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby Foil » Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:14 am

I have just returned from a 2 week very windy El Medano kitesurfing holiday, and witnessed 4 individuals snap a line on different days, and each time it was a truly shocking and scary event, and that was only the ones I witnessed so many more must have gone, two snaps were on school gear which was extra scary for everyone.
Never seen a line snap?
well I get them in for repair or replacement nearly every week, and no line is immune from wear and failure, if you see any wear then sort it, don't do what i see so often, yes some guys still tie a snapped line back together with a good old knot and believe it will be ok, no it wont! any wear is a certain loss off strength, snapping a line is easy to do, I do it to demonstrate to owners who question how long their old lines may last for. they look in shock when i show them how easy it is to break a line with a hard sudden hard pull back (using only one arm and a hammer shaft to protect my hand)
some brand lines are not the greatest, but i am not about to reveal who i believe are the less good ones, but a look in my rubbish bin may give a few clues.

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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby knotwindy » Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:42 pm

Well, since most of us here either can’t or won’t look through your trash, maybe you could just tell us what we would find there and help us all out? For safety reason?

Foil
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Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 91kg
Local Beach: New Brighton near Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide deep lagoon
and regular at Rhosneigr and Newbrough on Anglesey
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough, Blackrock sands
lake Como (Italy) El Medano
Style: kite foiler since 2017 Ttip since 2000
Gear: My rule to gear choice is "IF IT DONT BOOST ITS NO USE"
Groove Skates 110cm 2022 editions
kraken mast systems 103k and 93k.
Kraken fuse 703k
Duotone SLS Evo's -- 11mtr/9mtr/7mtr/6mtr/ 5mtr Reedin/ 4mtr RRD.
Duotone 2022 click bars x2,my own custom made lines fitted,
(modified lines now available for the flite99 shod duotone bars)
Bar lines made up to any length in a choice of strengths, power lines, trim lines, pigtails, leader lines, bridal lines, elasticated lines, I make and fit them all, free fit and tune service,
quick turnaround, give me! the bar doctor a call, find me on messenger
Brand Affiliation: None
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Re: Is this line too worn?

Postby Foil » Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:01 am

knotwindy wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:42 pm
Well, since most of us here either can’t or won’t look through your trash, maybe you could just tell us what we would find there and help us all out? For safety reason?
I am very tempted to reveal all, but on a public forum, not a chance.
there are a few bar brands out there that are using or have used lines and methods of manufacture that make me cringe, and one of the bar fails last week was from a school using just that bar with the line that just keeps on failing,
Evan (above) has used many wise words to help, and I agree with all of them, before a bar is sent to me I question the owner to find out all answers i need to give him or her the best advise on line choice that sits within their budget,
the most common question they ask me is how much? next question is often look a this picture of my lines and tell me if they are in need of changing or will they be good for another year, an impossible question to answer easily, sometimes the wear is building up from the inside with tiny particles of sand grit/abrasive dust in there, i have often had my splicing needles inside some old line and felt my thin steel needle scratching against the hidden line destroyer, this has been when owners have sent me their old lines for re splicing or to alter the length.


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