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2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

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CanadianGringo
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2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby CanadianGringo » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:07 pm

Having an issue with my 2017 8m Pivot back stalling.
Never had this issue with my 12m Pivot 2017.
Have tried both a naish bar and a canrinha bar that were properly tuned. Had this issue in both 30+ knots and 15 knots (with a foil).

Any suggestions for a fix?

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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:11 pm

8m will have smaller sheeting range than 12. Just try using a longer rear pig or shorter front pig. Adjust so that backstall point is just in or no longer in the bar throw. You can estimate the elongation you need by looking how far the bar is still out when back stalling starts to occur.

PS Trimming in on the strap will also reduce backstall - only alter the pigs if you have to trim in more than you want. Oddly with small kites you may need to trim in in light wind to take backstall out of the throw!
Last edited by Herman on Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:13 pm

There is no such thing as a "properly tuned bar".

You take your bar, any bar, and find the stall point by sheeting the kite, and then you trim either with the depower or knot settings, to find your personal liking.

Most often different sizes even from the same brand has a tad different trim, so if you use the same bar for several sizes, you either need to change the depower when changing kite, or you have to change the bridle lines at the kite if you want the exact same feel for different sizes.

That is all there is to it - find each kitesize's stall point, and work from there.

Using your personal trim liking of course.

Some freestylers, or beginners, want to be able to pull the bar in fully, without backstalling.
Others want the kite to backstall when bar quite far away.

I always ride so my kite backstalls quite early, as I want my bars working point to be quite far away from me, so I hardly never pull the bar in fully - only when I deliberately want the kite to stall deeper into the window, during bottom turns t.ex.

You can not measure a "correct tuned" bar - you can only find a correctly tuned bar for your personal liking and for a given kitesize.
If using the same bar, adjust at the kite if you dont want to bother/remember using the depower trim.

Most experienced riders start with kite fully depowered when launching, and then power it up to the pleasant trim in 10 seconds when riding, takes no time when you are experienced, to find this setting.

8) Peter
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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby tautologies » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:15 pm

CanadianGringo wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:07 pm
Having an issue with my 2017 8m Pivot back stalling.
Never had this issue with my 12m Pivot 2017.
Have tried both a naish bar and a canrinha bar that were properly tuned. Had this issue in both 30+ knots and 15 knots (with a foil).

Any suggestions for a fix?
How does it backstall? If it happens when you oversheet it is an easy fix. Don't pull in as much. :D
Or make small changes to the mounting knots like mentioned above.
If it is in specific situations, then start thinking about if there are any patterns. Check the front bridles to see if it has the 8 meter tags on just in case.

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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby Toby » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:35 am

Try to depower a bit and see if the problem still exist, if so, depower more. And see again.

If this solves the problem, then your back lines should be longer, or front lined shorter.

CanadianGringo
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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby CanadianGringo » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:06 am

All great suggestions. I have tried the trim in all different positions and still get the back stall. I will add some pig tails to the back lines and see what happens.

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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby evan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:45 am

Also keep in mind that an 8m will be more sensitive to stall compared to a 12m, especially when riding underpowered or downwind towards the kite.

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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby Herman » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:55 pm

As already said small kites are more prone to backstall and this can be awkward in a difficult sea state or awkward to the inexperienced. However, having backstall in the sheeting range can be useful and, imho, it is particularly useful for small kites because they can recover from a stall very quickly which allows you to turn power on and off in different parts of the window. If you backstall a 17m it feels like you could have some lunch while you were waiting for it to recover after sheeting out!!

Obviously, if the stall is followed by riding towards the kite and slack front lines nothing will recover quickly - you need front line tension for the recovery. Yank the center line if required!!
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Re: 2017 Pivot 8m Backstall

Postby pj sofine » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:39 am

It showed up on my new pivots used with my ss bars, I just added a couple of pigtails to the outside lines and no more issues, simple fix. Last thing i want to worry about is kite back stalling during a big loop, pigtails took that out of equation.


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