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Single strut vs surf kites

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MadDoggy
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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby MadDoggy » Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:46 am

1234567Simon wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:02 am
This is Just my oppinion:

My Kites.
Wave Kite 4,6,8
Below 12kn the 8m tends to Fall down, and will Not Relaunch... But would be enough for hydrofoiling.

Got a 10meter Ultra:
stays Up stable 6-7kn...
Relaunches at 7kn in flat water
Gets me Up in the Foil at aprox 8kn....
Getting big at 12knots....
It has way more Power than my 8m Wave Kite..

Sooooooooooo different than my Wave kite.
But love the relaxed Feeling for me:
IT will Not Fall down!
It will Relaunch!!!!



Just bought a 8m ultra...hoping for more high end (plus 2-3knots Up to 14) , with maybe only loosing 1-2kn Low end....

The 10m works in Waves with a surfboard but is Not perfect, as it flys soooo far to the Edge of the windwindow.... But goes upwind Like hell ...
I think a UFO would Work much better in Waves, but never saw anyone, and not sure about going upwind with an UFo on a Surfboard in Low Winds.

Ahhh, and the Ultra was pretty cheap


But the 10 is a Session Saver.... After a Long Drive, discovering only 6-7 knots, is pretty ugly😨

And yes!! 5 Kites is ridiculous..... So hoping the 8 is enough.







IMG_20230122_144340.jpg

This to me sounds like the perfect quiver for kitefoiling it’s kind of what I think I will end up with. Thing is though a have a 10m section 4/wave kite so might need to trade it in for a 10m airrush team and have a 8m and 6m section 4/5 when available. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby rnelias » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:19 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:48 am
I disagree, I find single strut light ones are by far the best LEI for hydrofoil.

Easier to slide launch, but most importantly - WHEN you ditch the kite in really low wind, the canopy wont cling to the surface like strutless very often do.

Meaning kite can be on its back, but no way to get wind into the canopy.

Or it can be on its LE, but canopy sucked down to the surface.
Sometimes you can "work" wind into the canopy again yes, other times when too low wind, not possible.

Why do I find this so important?

Because it is your "safe easy rescue", having the canopy filled with wind, even if too little to relaunch, you can steer the kite to get ashore, in a relaxed way.
Also, others can see the kite, if it goes really wrong - not visible if sucked to the surface.
It can in rare cases happen with a 1 strut on its back too, but very rare, compared to a strutless.
Even better, if a puff comes along, you might be able to back the kite up and foil again :D

I have ridden so many strutless and one struts (and more struts), so would definitely choose a 1 strut light one when medium/big size for light wind :thumb:

Of course, if you dont care about this, or never ditch the kite where you could get in trouble, a strutless is even lighter and the choice.

8) Peter
I agree and also prefer 1-struct for foiling and never got excited to try any structless kite, however, I'm considering to retire my loyal boxer, that must have already about 1.500km of riding life, and start to use the Crave HL, which is a light 3-struct, for both: HF and TT. I'm just a little bit concerned to put a brand new kite to self-launching in a dirty area :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby rnelias » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:26 pm

Axis1050 wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:20 am
Peter, have you used BRM Clouds strutless and understood the technique to relaunch them, its as easy as any kite. I have a full quiver and relaunching is not an issue even in very light wind.
when the kite is too light, and there's something to raise at least a little piece of rip stop out of the water, relaunching should not be an issue. The wind catch what's exposed and do its job.

Even Peak's can relaunch with the right technique however, 1-struct are no-brainer in this subject. Close your eyes and grab any line that the thing will go back to the sky :lol:

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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby rnelias » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:40 pm

Nak wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:02 am
Surf kites in general are built stronger than no strut kites, which is great if your kite gets rolled in the waves. I can't speak for everyone, but certainly there is a large cadre of UFO and Cloud riders using no strut kites in all sizes and wind conditions--because they like the way those kites fly. I rode with my 3m UFO yesterday in winds gusting into at least the mid 30s and it was absolutely great. The drift and ease of control was just phenomenal. I could toss the kite up high, ride the swell with the lines completely slack and then instantly get the kite where I needed it to ride to the next bit of swell. There is no way I personally would have had near as much fun on a surf kite. I have the UFO in almost every size from 3m to 11m, and in every size it is the kite I would continue to choose over any other kite in that size and wind condition--while foiling of course. The only exception I would make is if I was doing a long upwinder where time was a concern. In that case there are other kites that go upwind better. All of that is personal preference obviously. It's whatever get's you the most grins per hour of riding that counts.
You've raised an important point.

Surf kites are usually stronger and I think structless and 1-struct kites are not much used in waves also due to the load the canopy must support. It's surely more punishing for the kite to drag a directional board on waves than a hydrofoil in flat water. They surely can be used in waves but I suppose the kite would not last too much.

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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby junebug » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:15 pm

MadDoggy wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:43 pm
IWantToFly wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:14 pm
I’ve never heard anyone claim 3-strut surf kites drift better than one-strut or strutless or single-skin kites. They will be more stable, sure, because they maintain their structure better.
This is a key point.
All my research has indicated that surf kites are purpose built to be able to drift down the line in the surf when surfed straight at the kite. Whereas one and no strut kites are purpose build for low end power to pull in the lightest of wind. If not, why aren’t one and single strut kites used in the surf over surf kites? There has to be a reason surf kites are ridden in the surf. Additionally, I have heard that surf kites drift better from multiple sources…

Can I ask for people to give their opinion on thus one.
Every no / single strut kite I have ever owned drifted better than the wave kites I have owned. I ride Boxers now and they drift significantly better than Pivots, which I used to ride.

No / single strut kites are also just a better overall foiling experience for me. No matter how strong the wind, I like foiling at the low end of a kite’s range. Wave kites in smaller sizes will start backstalling and fall out of the sky long before no / single strut kite.

I can understand wanting to use wave kites for foiling, but it will be a compromise for sure, and not one that I personally would be willing to live with.
Last edited by junebug on Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby IWantToFly » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:54 pm

There is also perhaps some confusion in this discussion. Are we talking foiling in the surf (this thread is in the hydrofoil section) or surfboard. On a surfboard I would often want more grunt and structure for jumping and pulling upwind with the additional drag of a surfboard. The considerations are different on a foil and you will see more one-strut and strutless even though relaunch in the waves is a valid concern for most people.
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Nak
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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby Nak » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:27 pm

IWantToFly wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:54 pm
There is also perhaps some confusion in this discussion. Are we talking foiling in the surf (this thread is in the hydrofoil section) or surfboard. On a surfboard I would often want more grunt and structure for jumping and pulling upwind with the additional drag of a surfboard. The considerations are different on a foil and you will see more one-strut and strutless even though relaunch in the waves is a valid concern for most people.
Good points and agreed completely. For me, the no strut kite is a dedicated foil weapon. For any other board, I would choose a 3+ strut kite.

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Re: Single strut vs surf kites

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:22 pm

To my understanding, we are talking about whether it makes sense to use single strut kites in the smaller sizes, and not only as the "light wind hydrofoiling" tool.

Or you are better off using a light wind kite ONLY for the big size, and "normal" kites for the smaller ones.

IMO yes, it makes sense to use light kites for the smaller sizes too, for hydrofoiling, if you have no money issues, and no issues having a double quiver.

But most will no doubt use normal wavekites for medium to high winds (I did too before the Peaks, but a foil kite and not what we discuss here), and then one really light kite for light wind hydrofoiling.

And here I still recommend a 1 strut, for the reasons mentioned.

Yes you can learn to relaunch a no strut, but in the rare cases where wind drops even more, it is awesome to be able to drift ashore comfortably sitting on your board :thumb:

Not really any downsides with 1 struts, except for a tad heavier - but the advantages are usually bigger.

I agree with the posters saying hydrofoil light wind kites is also about being able to dump power, quite important.

Whether a strutless or 1 strut, it makes total sense for the light wind hydrofoil kite, you can NOT use a normal kite here.

And opposite, if you on rare occasions want to ride on a surfboard with a big kite (most dont, a 7 or 8 m2 is the max size usually), the 1 strut or strutless CAN work okay yes.

8) Peter


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