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Micro Carbon kite bars ?

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watercamper
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby watercamper » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:32 pm

@fleetrico - can you provide the contact info for your PTU/PTFE? I have not been able to find a tube that works for me. Thx!

nixmatters
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby nixmatters » Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:26 pm

watercamper wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:32 pm
@fleetrico - can you provide the contact info for your PTU/PTFE? I have not been able to find a tube that works for me. Thx!
Have you checked FEP and PFA? Both more flexible than PTFE, but have some down sides.

fleetrico
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby fleetrico » Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:39 pm

watercamper wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:32 pm
@fleetrico - can you provide the contact info for your PTU/PTFE? I have not been able to find a tube that works for me. Thx!
What size OD and ID are you looking for ?

fleetrico
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Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:53 am
Local Beach: Cape Cod mass
Favorite Beaches: Any place with warm wind white sand and a wave ....those are my favorites
Style: freestyle
Gear: Currently hooked on Moses 679 with a 420 stab and a 91 mast tucked under a homemade pocket board with half hooks.
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby fleetrico » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:47 am

evan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:13 am
Put the hole on the side of the tube. Hole can be bigger, giving less friction plus the bar will be stronger and lighter as you don't have to reinforce the center with the bonus you don't grind into sharp carbon with the depower cord.

Also a matte sanded finish will give more grip when wet.

Funny you have gone as thin as 14mm diameter, most kiters I show my 20mm bars are anxious about how thin it looks.
I have had vintage bars that the side trim loop hole was off the side .As well as providing one more part for lines to get snagged on they always had a weird swing when you spin them back like an offset cam and not liking that I decided to go the this direction. The Matte finish I guess is up to the end user to decide if they want it. It's easier for most to wet sand it down to a flat finish if they want than to buff up to a gloss . All of the custom sup paddles I build and 90% of the market are gloss finish and no one really has an issue with them or the non flat finish... Almost all carbon pole spears are gloss finish and those are also held back with neprene gloves with no complaints from that crowd either. Many EVA shrink wrap options and High friction tapes exist if you want a soft feel and extra grip. Personally I believe it comes down to the glove type for the grip. Some gloves like Hyperflex or Bare have a hard plastic nylon micro dot texture grip enhancers and some like Xcell and Mystic use a wind skin like rubber grip enhancer . The plastic like grip ones seem to stick really well on EVA or soft goods and not really all that well on hard goods like carbon or metal regardless of matte or gloss finish. When I first started making the one piece bars I stared on 18 mm mandrels producing a 22mm OD bar. Then I built thinner and thinner prototypes . The 14mm gained the most popularity with the largest complaint being that the center felt thin when flying one handed so I made a few prototypes making the center larger. 20mm is where most agreed was comfortable for one handed control and still nimble an the arms. In the end everyone has as slightly different preference as to how the perfect kite bar should feel and not everyone can build one safely from scratch . I am just providing another option that is off mainstream ,safe and overbuilt just as you are aiming for. I love your retro design and you make a nice looking bar but please don't post on my post how mine should be built as yours are .
Last edited by fleetrico on Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

fleetrico
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Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:53 am
Local Beach: Cape Cod mass
Favorite Beaches: Any place with warm wind white sand and a wave ....those are my favorites
Style: freestyle
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby fleetrico » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:43 am

FunOnTheWater wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:57 pm
The downside from a big cutout in carbon as per design above, if the bar breaks after usage or abuse or overload etc, you have splinters like knifes in your hands, can be dangerous. But indeed this bar it looks very clean..... (in the past 15years back....I owned carbon bar and carbon was wearing out, even by PU sleeved hose...)


Evan, what is your experience, when using the hole outside of bar, can you still grab the bar and hold the kite single handed in the middle ?
Did also try with small eye with a bushing basically allowing the eye to swiffel ? (idea is to have the bar locked in, but still slide smooth under any angle)
During the prototyping phase I built bars in three parts with an alloy milled connecter in the center with abs printed replaceable guides as I also was worried about sawing the bars in half from the chicken loop line . They were heavier by 30 grams and lost that minimal feel and look.As other full carbon prototypes got made it became obvious that breaking the bar was a nonissue. Not with my intentional extreme abuse or my friends and customers riding .Even with hundreds of sessions with frizzy trim lines sawing into the center none ever actually wore down enough to break before it was visually concerning enough to retire it. I am sorry to hear you had an inferior carbon bar and failed to maintain it and it broke but you must have seriously pushed it beyond safe knowing that it was on the brink of failure. All gear is dangerous if you don't maintain it. I kind of feel like you are trying to produce a problem where there is not one to promote another members product . In the future if you would like to ask Evan's opinion about his bar or his design please do it on his very well documented build post where others might find it useful. If you are interested in the last carbon 3 part bar I have that I posted the pic for with the alloy and ABS center DM me and I can work a deal for the last remaining Protoype . Aloha
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fleetrico
Medium Poster
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:53 am
Local Beach: Cape Cod mass
Favorite Beaches: Any place with warm wind white sand and a wave ....those are my favorites
Style: freestyle
Gear: Currently hooked on Moses 679 with a 420 stab and a 91 mast tucked under a homemade pocket board with half hooks.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby fleetrico » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:06 am

{Remove}

kitexpert
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby kitexpert » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:28 pm

fleetrico wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:47 am
evan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:13 am
Put the hole on the side of the tube. Hole can be bigger, giving less friction plus the bar will be stronger and lighter as you don't have to reinforce the center with the bonus you don't grind into sharp carbon with the depower cord.

Also a matte sanded finish will give more grip when wet.

Funny you have gone as thin as 14mm diameter, most kiters I show my 20mm bars are anxious about how thin it looks.
I have had vintage bars that the side trim loop hole was off the side .As well as providing one more part for lines to get snagged on they always had a weird swing when you spin them back like an offset cam and not liking that I decided to go the this direction.
This. Side center hole is easy to make and strong but it just has felt somehow unbalanced. Gin used to have that kind of bars 20 years ago, and probably some others too.

I like your design even though I'm not in need of thin bar. Actually I quite like Ozone thick bar feel in my hand

merl
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby merl » Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:01 pm

fleetrico wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:43 am
During the prototyping phase I built bars in three parts with an alloy milled connecter in the center with abs printed replaceable guides as I also was worried about sawing the bars in half from the chicken loop line .
The bars do look very fine - the proto one especially. A matt finish on the bar would be nice even if it won't look as bling.

What wall-thickness are you using for the rods? I use 2mm but that seems to be above the norm of 1-1.5mm.

FunOnTheWater
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Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby FunOnTheWater » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:57 pm

These bars looks great, as mentioned especially with gloves thin bar is much better.

watercamper
Medium Poster
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:57 am
Kiting since: 2017
Weight: 146
Local Beach: US: the Columbia river Gorge, lower Columbia river, Oregon coast. Mexico: La Ventana (Rasta beach in El Sargento) BCS
Style: Foil mostly, Surf, TT on the ocean
Gear: Slingshot 4,5,6,7,8 UFO V2; 3, 9m V1.1
Slingshot 4,5,6,7,8,9m SST
Flysurfer Peak4, 4, 5, 6, 8: Peak5, 4
Flysurfer Hybrid 3.5
Naish Pivot 8,9m
Liquid Force Mission Control bars modified for foil with Infexion seat belt, DIY lines
Ocean Rodeo click bar
Lift Classic 150, 101 cm mast
Sabfoil W590/S330, 101 cm mast; W550/S325; W679/S483
Slingshot 2020 107cm micro Dwarf Craft board strapless, 11 liter
Slingshot 2022 100 cm Dwarf Craft, strapless, 11 liter
4'10" Firewire Evo Helium
Cabrinha 137 n 141 Tronic
Mystic, Ion, O'Neill, Buell, Patagonia, Pro-Tec, Liros, Infexion
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Micro Carbon kite bars ?

Postby watercamper » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:00 am

fleetrico wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:39 pm
watercamper wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:32 pm
@fleetrico - can you provide the contact info for your PTU/PTFE? I have not been able to find a tube that works for me. Thx!
What size OD and ID are you looking for ?
Trim line is 5mm dia with a 6mm dia section so it would be nice to have a cover that could do both tightly.


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